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I've gone through the first three pages - Queuing for WZ/FPs rationale?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
I've gone through the first three pages - Queuing for WZ/FPs rationale?
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Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
10.03.2012 , 10:58 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
Does their fix stop this? Yes.
We agree. And I think we would both agree a stop to it was needed.

Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
Does their fix have other negative consequences? Yes.
All changes to game mechanics introduce what some perceive to be negative consequences. Happily, it's the game developers that make assessment and final choices, NOT the players (who are at best a fractionalized bag of special interest groups very often at odds with one another).

Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
Are there other possible soutions? Yes.
There are usually multiple solutions to a problem, which is why the developer team has to analyze and assess what is in the best interests of the larger community of players as a whole, NOT any given special interest group. Unlike some here, I recognize this, and I do not envy them for the work and decisions they must make as there is no pleasing everyone.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
10.03.2012 , 11:03 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by anakedcowboy View Post
People leave a warzone because there is a scarcity problem. It can take a DPS hours to get a GF queue, and under the old system, minutes to get a warzone (which backfilled pretty quickly), though that could be optimized by reducing loading times, time to accept the invite, cinematics.

People wanting to experience both aspects of the game in a reasonable period of time is not a problem, it's a strength.
IMO the root problem is an over dependence by the player base on PUGs, rather then the older and more traditional approach of MMO players where friends (real life or virtual) and guild members form your core activity pool to enjoy group content. Playing with people you know and trust, to a planned schedule (and group roles and makeup) instead of "whatever/whenever as long as I can get my loot" mindset. PUG style play is a core issue to all of this, and it goes to the general maturity level (in terms of play style) of the community in today's MMOs. I fault WoW for addicting the playerbase into thinking PUG is somehow now the prefered play style of much of the population.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

Lium's Avatar


Lium
10.03.2012 , 11:04 AM | #63
A couple things.

First, to the guy or gal arguing that it wasn't BW's intent to stop stacking queues, I have to ask: in what MMO have you played where stacking queues was an intended playstyle? That's a serious question because in my seven years of playing MMOs, I have yet to see it. No MMOs I have ever played encourages this. In fact, they discourage it by putting in features similar to the one BioWare just did where they put a stop to queuing for multiple things. You trying to say Allison never mentioned this as a problem is engaging in semantics. The fact BW put a stop to queueing for WZs and FPs at the same time means they don't want you to be stacking queues. If they were fine with it, this change would never have been put in to begin with.

Second, for those of you complaining about how long it takes for queues to pop for DPS, I'm going to once again assume you are new to MMOs as this happens in all of them. There's always an overabundance of DPS. So, there are two solutions to this problem. Either roll a tank or healer and have instant queues, or BW implements cross-realm FP queuing. But in reality the only way that you will have guaranteed short queues is to play a support class. That is the easiest fix. And I say this as a DPS class myself, where I, too, am waiting hours for a queue. Is it frustrating? Of course. But I knew when I rolled a sentinel that it would be a consequence.

Someone on here said it best years ago before the game launched. There are really only two classes in every game: LFM and LFG.

NinjaApacHe's Avatar


NinjaApacHe
10.03.2012 , 11:06 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Telsnow View Post
If you really enjoy standing around on Fleet waiting for the flashpoint queue to pop, you're really going to love this change because the rest of us who don't enjoy watching paint dry aren't going to bother using the group finder as much so by all means, have fun with an even greater wait time than before.
I think you misunderstood. I'd rather play WZ than do FPs.

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
10.03.2012 , 11:17 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Lium View Post
First, to the guy or gal arguing that it wasn't BW's intent to stop stacking queues, I have to ask: in what MMO have you played where stacking queues was an intended playstyle? That's a serious question because in my seven years of playing MMOs, I have yet to see it. No MMOs I have ever played encourages this.
So because no other MMO has done this, it couldn't possibly have been intended? Interesting. It's possible that it wasn't intended, although I have seen no clear statements from devs or the community team to indicate that. It's also possible that BW decided to try something different so the long dps queues weren't as onerous.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
10.03.2012 , 11:20 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
There are usually multiple solutions to a problem, which is why the developer team has to analyze and assess what is in the best interests of the larger community of players as a whole, NOT any given special interest group. Unlike some here, I recognize this, and I do not envy them for the work and decisions they must make as there is no pleasing everyone.
You know, I've watched your posts for quite awhile. You strongly advocate a hands-off approach from the players, one in which we should never or rarely criticize developer decisions because they "know best" despite numerous examples of developers listening to and implementing suggestions from the player-base. There are many many quotes I could find on this board from the community team and developers asking for input, asking players to tell them our concerns and make suggestions both generally and on specific matters. I fear you do them a grave diservice by trying to quash criticism and trivializing the suggestions that get thrown their way.

There are other solutions for people leaving wzs. I suggested one; others have suggested other solutions. My belief, based on what I've seen, is that if there is enough community upset about the issue and if the solutions suggested are viable, there is a good chance BW will change the way they handle this issue.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box

Mithros's Avatar


Mithros
10.03.2012 , 11:45 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
... but they can't jump if they can't STACK. So STACKING is the root cause that is actionable by the game developers.
They can't jump if the game puts their queue position on hold while they PvP, either, but you thought that thiat was a terrible idea because the people that were stacking would complain.

Well, they are complaining now. At least my way they would eventually be able to work their way to the top of the queue. Your way, they never even get into it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
IMO the root problem is an over dependence by the player base on PUGs, rather then the older and more traditional approach of MMO players where friends (real life or virtual) and guild members form your core activity pool to enjoy group content. Playing with people you know and trust, to a planned schedule (and group roles and makeup) instead of "whatever/whenever as long as I can get my loot" mindset. PUG style play is a core issue to all of this, and it goes to the general maturity level (in terms of play style) of the community in today's MMOs. I fault WoW for addicting the playerbase into thinking PUG is somehow now the prefered play style of much of the population.
So if I do not have any friends playing this game I shouldn't play?

If I do not want to belong to a guild and let other players decide what I "should" be doing or how I "should" be specced and geared, or to tell me that I "have to" use whatever voice chat they prefer, I shouldn't be playing?

I can not possibly just enjoy the stories and be satisfied with occasionally enjoying a flashpoint or heroic grouped up with people that I may not have ever teamed with before that time?

And you call me selfish?

You do not even know me.

I do not stack queues, I do not leave PvP groups at the first sign of trouble (or even when defeat is all but certain), and I do not ninja loot because I think that I might be able to sell it for a few credits or give it to an alt, but you are ready to ascribe every negative character trait that you can think of to me because PUGs are how I find any groups that I join.
Beta Squadron 157

As long as we remember, it's never really gone.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
10.03.2012 , 11:46 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
You know, I've watched your posts for quite awhile. You strongly advocate a hands-off approach from the players, one in which we should never or rarely criticize developer decisions because they "know best" despite numerous examples of developers listening to and implementing suggestions from the player-base.
I advocate for giving the developer team player ideas and concerns in a constructive manner and through the channels they have defined for doing so. I do not advocate for complaining and second guessing every single thing the developer team does.

When they make a change, the first thing I do is look at the change and assess why, and what they were wanting to achieve, then I comment about it. There are others here that do similar, but there are many that simply criticize everything Bioware does without even attempting to think through what/why/how. Do they make mistakes... yep they sure do (and they admit it too). However in a gaming forum....everyones definition of "mistake" is different and often subjective so that's an endless rat hole really. Some are valid, some are not. Regardless, players do not decide what gets changed (no matter how much they think stomping their feet will work), the developer teams does (based on a lot of input from a lot of different channels and players).

And yes, at the end of the day, it is the developer team that 1) has the most complete view, information, and data 2) knows what they want their MMO to be for the broadest scope of the player base 3) has to make the actual decisions about what to do, what not to do, and what to adjust or change over time. NOT the players.

And, I am consistent in my approach regardless of the MMO I am discussing and which forum I am posting in. I play an MMO for what it offers me as a player, not based on my dreams of wishes at a personal level as to what it needs to be. I recognize that I am the player, and the MMO is the MMO. I play it for what it is if I enjoy it and like it. If I don't I move on to something else. What I do not do is stomp and complain that the developer team is clueless or never plays their own game, or is fail, etc. etc.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
10.03.2012 , 11:51 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
So if I do not have any friends playing this game I shouldn't play?
Never said that. In fact I never specifically commented on anything about you personally or your play preference or style.

All I said was that PUG mechanics have created a deep dependency in the player base, and encouarges selfish play styles rather then community play style, loyalty, and trust between group members.

PUG if you like. Your choice. But it does not change the fact that PUG mechanics destroy some fundamental qualities of MMOs that existed in more depth then before PUGs became an integral part of the game mechanics. I grant that they do allow the individual access to group content, in the absence of anyone they know and trust to play an MMO with.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

Glower's Avatar


Glower
10.03.2012 , 11:54 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post

Stacking queues is not a problem. What is a problem is when the lfg pops in the middle of a wz and people leave. So supress the lfg pop for that person. Pause them in queue (they stay #34 or whatever) while they're in the wz. As it stands, the lower level fps take forever and a day to find a group for. Now that people can't kill time doing wzs while in lfg, you'll likely (not for sure, but likely) see those queues stretch out even farther. I think there are more sensible ways to fix the issue of people leaving wzs.
It's way too smart for Bioware...
SWTOR goes F2P: http://i.imgur.com/1962X.jpg
A: "They’d love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)