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The real problems with the current state of PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The real problems with the current state of PVP

Kronus's Avatar


Kronus
12.19.2011 , 03:16 PM | #1
1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP. The indicators for your selected target are also pretty poor. In a group of people it's often hard to tell which one you've actually targeted.

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.

EDIT:
There seem to be recurring themes in the responses.

1) Go back to wow.

2) If you're fighting 14,000 versus 1 obviously your going to die.

3) Set your ability queue to 0 seconds in the options menu.

4) Swtor has slower combat. 1.5s global cooldown is different than standard 1s global cooldown.

Responses

1) I haven't played wow for 5 years. I don't plan on going back. It had many of it's own problems. I appreciated it's fluidity and responsiveness. In the pursuit of having an intelligent conversation I made up the term WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) so that people could continue having the conversation without have to say "Well this amorphous thing that I can't quite describe regarding the game not being responsive and fluid to play and sometimes when I use things it takes time but other times things happen that I pressed a while ago but I" and you get the point. It's meant to improve the dialogue not to detract from it. Stop focusing on the fact that the word world of warcraft appears in it.

2) The cc 2v1 is enough for complete lock and rock. I'm not asking for no cc. I'm not asking to be a berserker demon who can take people 2v1. I'm asking to let me move my character and use my abilities so that I can die doing something 2v1.

3) Firstly I, and anyone else of average intelligence, has already gone through the menus searching for answers. We have done and tried this in addition to many other things. You are not special for mentioning it. Secondly it doesn't help. Ability queueing deals with spells queuing while your on global cooldown. It does not deal with the responsiveness of spells activating when your not on global cooldown which is the central issue.

4) Responsiveness and fluidity has n-o-t-h-i-n-g to do with combat speed or how long global cooldowns are. Stop conflating these topics please it distracts from the dialogue.

Ragana's Avatar


Ragana
12.19.2011 , 03:17 PM | #2
This post is the truth, simple as that.
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Yadobo's Avatar


Yadobo
12.19.2011 , 03:20 PM | #3
I wholeheartedly support this post 100%.

Jurary's Avatar


Jurary
12.19.2011 , 03:22 PM | #4
Yes, you can think of WoW what you want, but you know damn well it's the most smooth running and responsive MMO out there.
"I'm a Marauder, thus I will destroy you"

heinywb's Avatar


heinywb
12.19.2011 , 03:23 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kronus View Post
1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP.

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.
1. agree though not gamebreaking...i think some of this has to do with timing....and a lot of ppl have gotten used to the 1.5 sec gcd yet

are spells Q'd? ive noticed that things i hit a while ago are still going off when im trying to cc or break a cc but i cant because its still running through spells i hit several seconds ago

2. agree

3. agree

4. def agree but could work its self out at 50 just dont know yet....

Mackuss's Avatar


Mackuss
12.19.2011 , 03:23 PM | #6
Thank God it wasn't just me:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=51159

That's my thread about the topic. I think, collectively, we make a really good argument.

Totally agree on the part about CC being stupid in this game. It really is unfair when some classes (Inquisitor/Sage) have CC in the form of straight up stuns and slows, and an Agent/Smuggler for example have a snare (that is completely mitigated by server/lag/crappy engine) and a 4 second stun with an INCREDIBLE cooldown.

game needs to be tweaked hardcore.
while(horse.State == dead)
{
horse.beat();
}

Mackuss's Avatar


Mackuss
12.19.2011 , 03:24 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by heinywb View Post
1. agree though not gamebreaking...i think some of this has to do with timing....and a lot of ppl have gotten used to the 1.5 sec gcd yet

are spells Q'd? ive noticed that things i hit a while ago are still going off when im trying to cc or break a cc but i cant because its still running through spells i hit several seconds ago

2. agree

3. agree

4. def agree but could work its self out at 50 just dont know yet....
1 - I'm sorry but...I'm trying not to be mean here but there are those of us that are actually really good at PvP and it is entirely game breaking when....you can't play the game.
while(horse.State == dead)
{
horse.beat();
}

Kronus's Avatar


Kronus
12.19.2011 , 03:27 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by heinywb View Post
1. agree though not gamebreaking...i think some of this has to do with timing....and a lot of ppl have gotten used to the 1.5 sec gcd yet

are spells Q'd? ive noticed that things i hit a while ago are still going off when im trying to cc or break a cc but i cant because its still running through spells i hit several seconds ago

2. agree

3. agree

4. def agree but could work its self out at 50 just dont know yet....
The spells are queued. You can select in the interface settings the window you want them to queue. I believe you can set anywhere between 0 and 1.5 seconds.

Setting the queue window to 0 seconds (no queueing) still has very poor responsiveness.

Corwingeorge's Avatar


Corwingeorge
12.19.2011 , 03:33 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kronus View Post
1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.
this x1000

ZeusThunder's Avatar


ZeusThunder
12.19.2011 , 03:38 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Kronus View Post
1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP. The indicators for your selected target are also pretty poor. In a group of people it's often hard to tell which one you've actually targeted.

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.
1) Can't say I've experienced this myself. I haven't had a problem with abilities not responding fast enough.
2) Status notifications are not non-existant. There are icons above your health bar that tell you what active effects are on your character.
3) Agree 100%. This is especially evident in hutball when trying to cc the ball carrier when they are in a group of people. I often end up cc'ing the wrong person.
4) I don't think there is too much cc, but I see what you're getting at. A cc immunity after being cc'ed for around 3-5 seconds would fix this problem. It isn't that people have too many cc abilities, it's just that players are getting smarter and learning to chain CC by waiting for the current CC to finish before using another one.

On a side note, I've never taken PvP seriously in other MMO's I've played. I just did it casually when I wasn't raiding. I didn't sub to SWTOR for its PvP either, I planned on focusing on PvE.
I was surprised to find then that I've been doing more PvP than anything else. I think the rewards are perfect, and the BG's are very well designed. Hutball is very innovative, and the other 2 BG's were done well. Overall PvP is very good, it just needs some minor tweaking.