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BIOWARE stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
BIOWARE stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
09.27.2012 , 09:41 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Vankris View Post
Vanguard and Powertech are melee class with some long and mid range capabilies, but melee class at heart.

2 range DPS ability have been reduce to 10m, but you still have plenty, notably stiky grenade, which is not as powerfull as assault plastique but share the same cooldown, high impact bolt still have 30m range.

it's not that bad.
Actually, it looks like they uncoupled the cds of assault plastique and sticky grenade - you can have both up at the same time now.

I'll figure this new rotation out. Most of my dps was close range anyway, we still don't have to be within 4 m for anything but SS so there's some mobility still there, although a lot of our flexibility is gone. The thing I hate about losing that 20 yards on AP and IR is that it takes a lot longer for me to get into position now since we have no gap closers. Storm needs to be a standard ability for vans across the board, seriously. Our gap-closers used to be AP and IR, now we have HS (oh boy!) and SG (which we can't use if there are cc'd mobs). Storm would make me a happy girl.

I'd really love to know why this change was necessary. A developer explanation on that would be appreciated. If it was for pvp alone, that's bs.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box

Altephor's Avatar


Altephor
09.27.2012 , 09:47 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Haggardbr View Post
In my opinion (and I believe that's not only me that thinks like me) those two classes ARE NOT melee range classes... of course they have close quarters abilities (just like snipers / gunslinger and these are not melee classes) but that doesn't mean we need to be less than 10 meters close to the enemy all the time! Most of our abilities have a 30 meter range (hammer shot, full auto, sitcky grenade and many others).

If you're not playing a DPS Pyrotech in melee range, you're messing with your own PvE experience. This change does pretty little to change how these classes play.

Datku's Avatar


Datku
09.27.2012 , 09:53 AM | #33
Don't ya know...no one PvE's in this game. Its all about PvP. If you PvE you are doing it wrong and need to go back to Hello Kitty online. If this game is going to survive its going to be on the subscriptions of all the PvPer's not the wussy PvE carebears.

One thing I could never understand....not just concerning BIoware but MMO's in general. They ALWAYS listen to the PvPer's. Why? They make the most noise. Reality is though that most true PvPer's don't tend to stay in any game for a long time. Usually PvPer's flood into a new game believing all the hype thinking this one is finally going to do it right. They then begin to make suggestions on how to fix things...usually by fix things they want everyone but themselves nerfed. After all PvPer's are pro players and if they ever get defeated its because of either busted game mechanics or someone is cheating. No one can be better than a PvP player. They are gods. They know whats best. And if they don't get it they will quit and the game will fail.

Reality is though...I actually know more people that refuse to PvP any more (90% of them since the last major patch over did expertise). Not just in this game...this trend has been happening for several MMO releases over the last 5+ years. PvPers come in, make demands, cry, scream, shout, threaten till changes are made that ultimately ticks off the PvE crowd. PvP changes that at times does more dmg to the PvE aspect of the game than resolve PvP issues. They don't care about PvE players because the life of any online game is PvP...at least in their eyes. These are the people that come into a game, push for major changes, then quit and chase after the next great PvP game. Meanwhile the real bread and butter subscriptions...the raiding, social, PvE crowd sometimes have their entire play experience changed by fleeting PvP players here this month and gone next month.

Game company's never learn. There are soooo many examples of how PvP changes has destroyed MMO's over the years. The destruction is not to PvP but to the PvE aspect. PvP players come and go. PvP players are like unmediated ADHD children running around without direction. Pumped about the new game but bored with it just as fast and moving on to the next great game. Meanwhile, the PvE crowd is abused over and over with class changes due to PvP that at times change the very playstyle of a class alienating PvE players who really play their characters and could care less about valor rank and score board numbers. Game company's loose sight of the subs that will be most loyal to them and their greatest investors to appease a subset of subs that will show no loyalty and rarely show any real longevity to any game. Its happened before, its happening now, and it will happen again.
~~~
Krayt Dragon

Lilura 50 Sorc, Kilva 40 Sniper, Datku 40 Power Tech, Ciedoc 50 Marauder

ProsaicProse's Avatar


ProsaicProse
09.27.2012 , 09:56 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Lt_WGorman View Post
They cope by having 'gape closer' abilities, we do not.
They have multiple defensives CDs, we do not.

Like OP said, those nerfs are PVP based, nothing more.
Wait, what "gap closer" does Operative get again...?

TheRampage's Avatar


TheRampage
09.27.2012 , 10:03 AM | #35
Only thing I miss is my cyro grenade. As vanguard tank, I have no useable cc, grenade is one of the better. Not just for PVP, even more for PVE (puzzle boss, new ops last boss, plenty of usage). Why not nerf range of every single cc? PT and vanguards aren't so good in pvp because they have cyro grenade and they can hit from range, they are strong because they ignore armor and hit like trucks. This nerf wont lower their damage if that was the goal.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
09.27.2012 , 10:07 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRampage View Post
Only thing I miss is my cyro grenade. As vanguard tank, I have no useable cc, grenade is one of the better. Not just for PVP, even more for PVE (puzzle boss, new ops last boss, plenty of usage). Why not nerf range of every single cc? PT and vanguards aren't so good in pvp because they have cyro grenade and they can hit from range, they are strong because they ignore armor and hit like trucks. This nerf wont lower their damage if that was the goal.
Umm, that's precisely what happened: they changed every hard stun's range to 10m (those that previously had a 30m range, of course; Dirty Kick is still a melee stun).

miglor's Avatar


miglor
09.27.2012 , 10:08 AM | #37
Drastic changes like this is *always*...I repeat...*ALWAYS* because of PVP QQing.

KamikazeKommando's Avatar


KamikazeKommando
09.27.2012 , 10:10 AM | #38
To be fair, it is really 3 abilities that got nerfed in range. You can throw [High Impact Bolt] aka [Rail Shot] in as well. Since it requires the burn (usually applied from the now nerfed IR), we can't use that until we're in the sub 10m range now too. We're pretty much stuck doing our basic [Hammer Shot] aka [Rapid Shot] until we're in 10m range. Previously we had several GCDs of 30m abilities to use while we closed the gap to enable the rest of our rotation.

I'm really disappointed by this change, not because I think it nerfs my damage much, but mainly because it really changes the play style quite dramatically and I don't like how it feels now. It is quite different, there's no doubt about it if you play the class. I really loved the pre 1.4 Vanguard Assault class play style, and now I am quite a sad panda how they changed it to this degree.

For those claiming we still have ranged DPS abilities, you need to walk in our shoes for a moment. Explosive Round (lol) is worthless, standing still for 3s to use Full Auto isn't going to do much for our DPS and then while it's on CD we're still SOL and maybe lost ground, Sticky Grenade is quite weak compared to our 31pt ability so we don't want to use the CD over AP. Ok, Mortar Volley, sure, once a minute. That's it, there's all the ranged abilties we have. Fact is: Vanguard Assault class have 6 abilities on their rotation, 5 of them now can't be used until we're in the 10m range, leaving just 1 (our default shot), from the previous 4 pre 1.4... that's kind of a big change in play style if you ask me.

FWIW, I both PVE and PVP equally *A LOT* and while admittedly this certainly affects PVP much more, it has a very real impact on raiding too. It's not just a learning curve thing, I simply won't be able to perform as well as I did previously, that's just a solid fact now due to the first paragraph.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
09.27.2012 , 10:10 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by miglor View Post
Drastic changes like this is *always*...I repeat...*ALWAYS* because of PVP QQing.
I used to think so... but the only explanation for the crazy buffs to Focus/Rage tree of Knights/Warriors is that Bioware wanted to improve the spec's performance in PvE. In PvP it was a monster even before 1.4.

veyl's Avatar


veyl
09.27.2012 , 10:11 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by ProsaicProse View Post
Wait, what "gap closer" does Operative get again...?
It's the one that they do in packs of course, stun locking players into a forum rage.

@OP. Pvp will ALWAYS dictate your PvE experience. Learn to Adapt instead of whine about it.