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no more black hole comms in story EC?

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DakSomtaaw's Avatar


DakSomtaaw
09.29.2012 , 11:49 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by seektravota View Post
so if these ops don't have blackhole coms. they want us all to quit raiding and do daily hm flashpoints/lost island over and over????????????????????????????
Pretty much. HM EV/KP til Rakata and if you want to not struggle real hard in HM EC/TFB its Flashpoints for a couple of weeks everyday.

Kanana's Avatar


Kanana
10.01.2012 , 03:19 AM | #142
I guess I'll wait until the level cap is expanded and the storylines continued before returning to the game. There's nothing for me in this game at th moment, just stuff for raiders.

Woetoo's Avatar


Woetoo
10.01.2012 , 07:09 AM | #143
From what I can see then...

Story mode operations are all now (in theory at least) a similar level of difficulty and reward similar gear.
So puggers or alts can go do EV, KP for columi gear then EC or even TFB on story mode and get Rakata gear.

Then for your progression raider... you do EV SM --> KP SM --> EV + KP HM and/or EC / TFB SM --> EC HM --> TFB HM --> EC NMM --> TFB NMM.

EXCEPT...

If EV and KP have more bosses, less trash and can be cleared quicker on HM than a SM operation... why would anyone in their right mind go and do EC or TFB more than once or twice on story mode ? All I see for EC and to a lessor extent TFB is stick, with no sight of the carrot.

Then... Black Hole comms are now worthless to raiders. Raiders capable of doing EC HM don't need BH comms, because they're getting Campaign gear which is better itemised for secondary stats and doesn't require the cost of extracting the mods to put them into Columi / Rakata shells. Sure, they can get campaign gear AND BH comms to tweak their secondary stats around for a short while, but that period is very limited when you are already getting campaign gear.

So for raiders who perhaps aren't quite ready for EC HM yet or who are struggling progressing on those fights... the only obvious choice is to head BACKWARDS into flashpoints for gear upgrades. *sigh*.

btw, the next call from players is going to be to nerf EC HM to make it more accessible for the lower tier of progression guilds. On the basis that the uber guilds are already working their way through TFB HM and the step up from EC SM to EC HM is too great for everyone else. You know, just a heads up, so you can think about it ahead of time, rather just reacting blindly.

My take on this that it will do nothing to slow down the gearing speed of "high level" progression guilds, and removes the opportunity for "lower level" progression guilds to over-gear fights they are struggling with. So... lose-lose, with only frustration on the horizon.

This line intentionally left blank
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IrishTR's Avatar


IrishTR
10.07.2012 , 07:01 PM | #144
I will offer one different view of the matter... Both SM EC and TFB chests have more crafting materials for which you can just make the mods that you would pull out of the BH gear anyways.

We've pretty much just used the BH Comms to buy whatever to rip for mats, learn and print em like money I know it doesn't answer the wacky reasoning for our current situation but seems an easier path (from a routine group standpoint) still leaves the random folks requiring to track down said crafters.

But other than a shell change, most of us really just rip the Mod/Enhancements shred em for mats craft what we really wanted, and take the Campaign armorings to whatever shell we desire or use the Rakata/BM shells for the set bonus. Same for Barrels (easiest to move with Legacy Event weapons) and Hilts usually just get from simple EC HM rips too.

Its also looking to be a faster method to do this for Dread Guard as well with the 1 piece that drops at that rate of min/max'n that junk ya rip and go... You end up with a large amounts of crafting mats that sort of trumps BH Comms (leaving you with BH Comms for Ear/Implants of course these are also easily crafted as well).

Just 2cent different point of view I guess, but I do agree with most of the previous posters views/angst the current arrangement needs to be re-evaluated to some degree.

gluefoot's Avatar


gluefoot
10.07.2012 , 07:34 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by alifaraaz View Post
Probably not a bug. Was reported several times on PTS.

If Im not mistaken it's attempting to keep Storymode nice and casual but in return also keeping the rewards light. It's also likely to make sure people keep using the Group Finder to farm BH comms as well as making sure nobody can gather BH comms too quickly. No proof to support this, just an educated guess.
^^
This guy got it right. BW didn't put it in the patch notes because they knew people would complain. It was supposed to raise people queuing in group finder to get their black hole comms there (think about it. you can get 10 comms a day by running an op and a hm flashpoint. WAY faster than a SM EC run). Ironically, the group finder pops have gone down on average. Sometimes I'll have a lucky day, but most times not.

gluefoot's Avatar


gluefoot
10.07.2012 , 07:37 PM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Woetoo View Post
From what I can see then...

Story mode operations are all now (in theory at least) a similar level of difficulty and reward similar gear.
So puggers or alts can go do EV, KP for columi gear then EC or even TFB on story mode and get Rakata gear.

Then for your progression raider... you do EV SM --> KP SM --> EV + KP HM and/or EC / TFB SM --> EC HM --> TFB HM --> EC NMM --> TFB NMM.

EXCEPT...

If EV and KP have more bosses, less trash and can be cleared quicker on HM than a SM operation... why would anyone in their right mind go and do EC or TFB more than once or twice on story mode ? All I see for EC and to a lessor extent TFB is stick, with no sight of the carrot.

Then... Black Hole comms are now worthless to raiders. Raiders capable of doing EC HM don't need BH comms, because they're getting Campaign gear which is better itemised for secondary stats and doesn't require the cost of extracting the mods to put them into Columi / Rakata shells. Sure, they can get campaign gear AND BH comms to tweak their secondary stats around for a short while, but that period is very limited when you are already getting campaign gear.

So for raiders who perhaps aren't quite ready for EC HM yet or who are struggling progressing on those fights... the only obvious choice is to head BACKWARDS into flashpoints for gear upgrades. *sigh*.

btw, the next call from players is going to be to nerf EC HM to make it more accessible for the lower tier of progression guilds. On the basis that the uber guilds are already working their way through TFB HM and the step up from EC SM to EC HM is too great for everyone else. You know, just a heads up, so you can think about it ahead of time, rather just reacting blindly.

My take on this that it will do nothing to slow down the gearing speed of "high level" progression guilds, and removes the opportunity for "lower level" progression guilds to over-gear fights they are struggling with. So... lose-lose, with only frustration on the horizon.

This line intentionally left blank
^^
Also this person. I like your post.

dscount's Avatar


dscount
10.08.2012 , 01:56 PM | #147
I have to agree with everyone! The progression is broken and needs some tweaking by BW folks. Knee jerk reactions seem to be a BW common mistake to over corect things - Like the gear chase to have BiS
Quote:
Story Mode Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond are balanced for players in Columi gear
1) I'd like to see a full BIOWARE team run SM EC/TFB in Full Columi. (I'd like to see a video). SM EC maybe now, but SM TFB? Doubt you would make it past the 2nd Boss with that group. (could be wrong)

Doing the math (with AskMrRobot > Gear Config > Simulation Tool > Max DPS) I'm not seeing how you can beat enrage timers on several Bosses without computer macros/efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, my math might be off here. Try this: Take a FULL Columi ALT to the OPS test dummy and pull down your average DPS. Repeat for every one of the Team members (Classes on OP) and do same. Example: My BH/Camp Geared ALT is capable of ~1500 DPS on paper, but only pulling ~1,200 on Dummy and more like ~1000 on actual OPS.
- - http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...48&postcount=7
Quote:
Going forward, Hard Mode and Nightmare mode will be the source of progression in Operations.
2) Great.. so NMM should be seeing BH Comms again? (Since HM drops BH and NMM used to)
Quote:
Story Mode was the best way to farm Black Hole Commendations
3) Okay! So you replaced BH Comm's with Materials to allow us to craft instead?
4) So Group Finder other SM's so we can get 5 BH comm's for doing all four SM's.
Quote:
Introducing either Op into the Group Finder would also mean rotating out Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace
5) Why? I find it hard to believe you can't setup a 2nd set instead of replacing (Call Tier 2 like Lost Island row)

OR


A) Put back two (2) BH Comms (small amount) in SM EC since it's been nerfed. I think 2 BH Per chest would be appropriate amout to keep those more "HM" based players jumping into SM versions to help others. Let's be honest, the whole "Columi" config is a load of crap and anyone that plays the game knows this.

B) Add as well to SM TFB - I'm thinking on the bosses (mini) would be fine since not that many chests exist. Again I think 2 BH Comm's would do the trick for the same reasons.
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Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
10.09.2012 , 08:46 AM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
I have to agree with everyone! The progression is broken and needs some tweaking by BW folks. Knee jerk reactions seem to be a BW common mistake to over corect things - Like the gear chase to have BiS1) I'd like to see a full BIOWARE team run SM EC/TFB in Full Columi. (I'd like to see a video). SM EC maybe now, but SM TFB? Doubt you would make it past the 2nd Boss with that group. (could be wrong)

Doing the math (with AskMrRobot > Gear Config > Simulation Tool > Max DPS) I'm not seeing how you can beat enrage timers on several Bosses without computer macros/efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, my math might be off here. Try this: Take a FULL Columi ALT to the OPS test dummy and pull down your average DPS. Repeat for every one of the Team members (Classes on OP) and do same. Example: My BH/Camp Geared ALT is capable of ~1500 DPS on paper, but only pulling ~1,200 on Dummy and more like ~1000 on actual OPS.
- - http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...48&postcount=7

2) Great.. so NMM should be seeing BH Comms again? (Since HM drops BH and NMM used to)
3) Okay! So you replaced BH Comm's with Materials to allow us to craft instead?
4) So Group Finder other SM's so we can get 5 BH comm's for doing all four SM's.
5) Why? I find it hard to believe you can't setup a 2nd set instead of replacing (Call Tier 2 like Lost Island row)

OR


A) Put back two (2) BH Comms (small amount) in SM EC since it's been nerfed. I think 2 BH Per chest would be appropriate amout to keep those more "HM" based players jumping into SM versions to help others. Let's be honest, the whole "Columi" config is a load of crap and anyone that plays the game knows this.

B) Add as well to SM TFB - I'm thinking on the bosses (mini) would be fine since not that many chests exist. Again I think 2 BH Comm's would do the trick for the same reasons.
Are you testing BiS Columi with full augments? My guild cleared HM TFB but we're BiS Campaign/BH with full augments. If you're complaining that fresh Columi can't do it, then you're not hitting your max potential with Columi gear. BW did say in full Columi, but that doesn't mean you can't assume they meant "Fresh Columi, no Augments". I know there was a dev who said before 1.4 came out (this was actually around the time that full augments on everything came out) that right now HM EC and such isn't balanced around full augments so people with full augs are going to have an easier time, BUT future operations will be balanced assuming full augments.

Also, certain group make-ups always make things easier. One sorc/sage with Healing Pool helps tremendously in 8-mans. Having 2 much melee is a problem. Those same problems exist in both HM and SM.

Are you sure you're optimizing your performance with full Columi?

However, I'm fine with them making SM EC and SM TFB easier for people who just want to see the content. If you want the best gear though, you gotta do it the right way and do HM Ops. Simple as that.

Sithcreep's Avatar


Sithcreep
10.18.2012 , 11:44 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
I have to agree with everyone! The progression is broken and needs some tweaking by BW folks. Knee jerk reactions seem to be a BW common mistake to over corect things - Like the gear chase to have BiS1) I'd like to see a full BIOWARE team run SM EC/TFB in Full Columi. (I'd like to see a video). SM EC maybe now, but SM TFB? Doubt you would make it past the 2nd Boss with that group. (could be wrong)
I totally agree, that statement from BW is once more a powerful testament to the fact that those guys got no clue whatsoever. There is no way in hell you can beat the Dreadguards in Columi gear. KelīSara is gonna enrage all nite long and send your sorry Columi azzes packing with a double-bladed lightsaber sticking in them.

And thats the part I really dont get, if they obviously got no idea what they are doing why dont they just ask someone whos more competent? For instance if they asked me, I would say: Listen BW, its entirely retarded to have an operation drop the gear that is actually needed to beat the same ops in the first place. Either nerf TFB sm so it can actually be done in Columi, or what I would prefer, make it harder but let it drop better gear (BH/Campaign) so people can actually gear up in the storymode and thus be able to beat it in hardmode. As of now all hardcore pve guilds like mine already came in fully augmented BH/Campaign and only did TFB sm to learn the mechanics and then went straight to TFB hm, since there is no incentive whatsoever to do TFB sm as soon as you can beat it due to completely worthless drops.
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TascaFH's Avatar


TascaFH
10.18.2012 , 11:57 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by Elfindreams View Post
This doesn't explain why they were removed from Karaga's Nightmare Mode.
Maybe because NM KP is a joke.