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SWTOR Is No Longer Supported By Most Sites

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
SWTOR Is No Longer Supported By Most Sites

Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
11.01.2012 , 12:56 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Beltane View Post
SWTOR has problems. Every single MMO in history has problems, particularly in its first year (or two). There are a *lot* of things about TOR that absolutely drive me up the wall. But the sheer level of ridiculous hatred and negativity it has generated by the vocal minority is pretty, well... ridiculous.

If you don't like the game, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm willing to bet the majority of people who quit were just like "meh, not the game for me." I can think of about 10 MMOs I tried and just couldn't get into and unsubscribed without a fuss.

With TOR, there seems to be this entire culture based around vehemently and violently hating it. TORtanic wasn't cute back in December and it's sure not cute now. Calling it the biggest failure in MMO or entertainment history is utterly laughable.

If you don't like it then unsubscribe. If you like it enough to stay subscribed but think it has things wrong with it that need improving, how about trying some positivity for a change? Honestly, if I was thinking about trying out this game I would be scared off by the level of hatred on the forums.

So, the same people who complain about the game being "dead" with "no players" are probably the ones that drive a certain percentage of those players away to begin with.
The issue with SWTOR is that many had high expectations with this game. It was expensive, it has one of the most well known IPs in the world, MMO players talking for years about the next generation MMO and some hoped SWTOR will be that, old SWG players were looking for a new Star Wars MMO which might be better than SWG. But all we got was some kind of WoW is Space, which missed most of features players expected a modern MMO to have from the start. Worse, there was not enough elder game PvE content after launce there (and MMO players expect that such content is there), PvP players could just watch how Ilum was killed soon after release and they never got anything to replace it, the RP crowd also never got chat bubbles or sitting or things that most other MMOs have already at launch. SWTOR was basically not able to make any MMO player happy, and the single players, who just looked into SWTOR to get their KOTOR 3+ also left at some point when they had finished the class story.

The websites, OP posted are mostly used by hard core gamers, who do the math and numbers crunching. But those players had no home in SWTOR, BioWare didn't gave them enough to stay around.

And now with the f2p model, which looks like F2P members will not feel like they are welcome here, BioWare is shoting themselves again in the foot. They just don't get the MMO market, and especially those players who are able to draw in others with their opinions.
My Old Republic Warring is Magic
Gwenya - The Drudenfusz Legacy, Jedi Shadow on Jar'Kai Sword
When you play the game of PvP, you win or you die.
English version <- SWTOR Wiki -> German version

Beltane's Avatar


Beltane
11.01.2012 , 02:09 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Drudenfusz View Post
The issue with SWTOR is that many had high expectations with this game. It was expensive, it has one of the most well known IPs in the world, MMO players talking for years about the next generation MMO and some hoped SWTOR will be that, old SWG players were looking for a new Star Wars MMO which might be better than SWG. But all we got was some kind of WoW is Space, which missed most of features players expected a modern MMO to have from the start. Worse, there was not enough elder game PvE content after launce there (and MMO players expect that such content is there), PvP players could just watch how Ilum was killed soon after release and they never got anything to replace it, the RP crowd also never got chat bubbles or sitting or things that most other MMOs have already at launch. SWTOR was basically not able to make any MMO player happy, and the single players, who just looked into SWTOR to get their KOTOR 3+ also left at some point when they had finished the class story.

The websites, OP posted are mostly used by hard core gamers, who do the math and numbers crunching. But those players had no home in SWTOR, BioWare didn't gave them enough to stay around.

And now with the f2p model, which looks like F2P members will not feel like they are welcome here, BioWare is shoting themselves again in the foot. They just don't get the MMO market, and especially those players who are able to draw in others with their opinions.
I am a RPer first and a gamer second and had SWG not been cancelled, I would be playing both games simultaneously. I loved SWG--no other game has come close to giving me an immersive, customizable place in a game world like it has--but I didn't ever expect TOR to be SWG2 just because it was about Star Wars. I expected a WoW-style game right from the start. And though the game is one of the least RP-friendly games in existence I have still managed to make many RPing friends and have awesome Star Wars stories with. Beyond that, I love this game's PvE and enjoy flashpoints and raids.

So, no, your blanket statement of "SWTOR was basically not able to make any MMO player happy" is inaccurate, since according to your post, as a RPer and an ex-SWG lover I should loathe this game--and I don't. I do think it has a LOT of problems! But I choose optimism and hoping those problems are fixed in the future, rather than proclaiming the game will be dead in a year or other such nonsense that fills these forums.

Just because some people set themselves up for unrealistic expectations doesn't mean the game is fundamentally flawed. It is a new game in vanilla. It will change over the years--and it will last for years. If Age of Conan of all games already has plans extending all the way to new content in 2014, I don't think TOR is in any danger for the foreseeable future... especially not now, with new Star Wars movies they can milk for players.
--=[ Wrath of Korriban
Ebon Hawk | Heavy Sith RP
IG: Beltane

bahdasz's Avatar


bahdasz
11.02.2012 , 05:49 AM | #63
If SWG had not been closed in a last minute attempt to herd its remaining players onto this trainwreck....

I'd still be paying for 4 accounts to play my 9 toons there, which was 1000 times better than playing 9 toons on one account for free here.

What does that tell you, BW/EA?

This game half sucks, so people rolled out as soon as something better came along. Those player sites rely on players for information as well... if nobody's playing, nobody's contributing.

And let's be honest.... all of the "wiki-style" sites out there are crap compared to SWG Wiki or Zam as well. They all have bad layouts, bad search engines and 99% of the info was just copied and pasted off of SWTOR.com word for word anyway. Wiki had really good, player written, begining to end walk throughs, easy to use databases.

In stead of making useful and user friendly sites everybody went for cool looking and easy to build... so nobody wanted to use them. Seriously, trying to find out any information on a quest on TORhead or Darthhater is an exercise in futility, it's impossible to just go there and see how a quest runs beginning to end, you have to look at each location and sublocation, and then you still can't find what you're looking for, and in the end it's a huge time-wasting pain in the ***.

The only really good site for looking for actual TOR information right now is Dulfy.net. They actually do research and post informative content, rather than just being a regurgitation of stuff from the official site and a million incomplete and useless references to items they found in the .tre files.

LordRahlik's Avatar


LordRahlik
11.02.2012 , 06:10 AM | #64
I am still amazed by the staggering hate towards SWToR.

I for one think that there is no other MMO that is even close to how good SWToR is. SWToR is simply the absolute best MMO available at the moment. Does it have bugs? Yes, of course. Is the customer service flawless? No, not a chance. But it still beats everything currently available or that has been available prior to this point by miles and miles.
This game seriously rocks the house.

Awesome PvP, tons and tons and tons of PvE content, great story, awesome replayability, super fun in all ways.
Voice over is awesome and I will probably never play an MMO without it ever again.

... according to me.

When you write that the game is boring or the graphic sucks or the story is bad or what-EVER it's YOUR OPINION. Nothing more. You can never claim that SWToR is a bad game generally. You might claim that YOU think it's bad. I love it.
You cannot be so general when you speak about something.

SWToR can be summed up like this:
SWToR is an MMO that is on par with most of the MMO released around it. BW has chosen not to innovate a lot in game play, most of it we have seen before. The only new thing we see is Voice Acting when you pick up almost every quest in the game and an evolving story line for each major class which drives your character forward.
It's not a huge success and the hype that surrounded the game prior to launch was greatly inflated for such a mainstream MMO. Customer Service from BW does not live up to expectations for a game of this size and the development team does not get enough time to bug-test new patches.
Overall a fairly mainstream MMO that will make some people very happy but nothing that will go down in the books as something extraordinary apart from voice acting.

However if it's a good or bad game is ONLY in the eyes of the player.

I say it's the best MMO game created so far. By miles.
Societies in decline tend not to innovate. I just wish we had cellphones to report quests. Guess light speed tech and cell phone tech are mutually exclusive.
I know this image is supposed to be an insult, but it's not.
Two similar games and yet SW:ToR is so much better.

uziforyou's Avatar


uziforyou
11.02.2012 , 01:17 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Metalmac View Post
Grinding is pretty much like playing PACMAN.

If you want to keep customers a long time the less GRINDING they have to do the better.

Any game with Grinding is doomed. I left WoW for the same reason as after a year of it no one can continue sanely.
Yet millions are still playing WoW and do continue so obvioulsy grinding in itself isn't a show stopper for most people. By association this then can't be the reason for SWTOR's struggles.
"When you're bleeding out in a ditch on some muckball planet it's not headquarters that comes to save you, it's the guy next to you."

uziforyou's Avatar


uziforyou
11.02.2012 , 01:27 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by LordRahlik View Post
I am still amazed by the staggering hate towards SWToR.
I wouldn't say SWTOR is the best game I've ever played, probably not even the best MMO I've ever played but I still enjoy it.

It's chief problem when it comes to the venom spewed on it by people was/is expectations. People who love star wars stuff tend to have fairly lofty expectations. Bioware just didn't meet (even continues to not meet) those expectations. The interesting thing is, that isn't Bioware's fault for the most part. Human beings have a tremendous capacity to look for data that supports their preset views and ignore data that conflicts with it. With expectations so high it is almost inevitable that SWTOR would be a fail in a lot of peoples eyes.

If one can get beyond these prejudices, SWTOR is really not a bad game and in fact quite good in some respects. You're just never going to convice the haters of this.............even though many of them still play the game as evidenced by them posting in these very forums.

And of course, if you say anything at all in support of the game you're fanboy in the haters eyes. So I'm a fanboy I suppose.
"When you're bleeding out in a ditch on some muckball planet it's not headquarters that comes to save you, it's the guy next to you."

DigitalEOD's Avatar


DigitalEOD
11.02.2012 , 06:21 PM | #67
Good comparison for any new MMO should be EVE Online. Started small, great fan base, great relations with the players. Has Grown and still maintains most of what has made it great. Keeping things new and fresh , on a single server so only one community not a split community. Large and expansive theme park sand box. A balance of safe areas and open world PVP on a massive scale and decent graphics. Just wish it wasn't so addicting that my wife would let me play it again.


WOW as the gold standard is great for the quick buck, but if a group actually loved the game they made WOW is not that standard.

Nanachub's Avatar


Nanachub
11.03.2012 , 02:30 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by shava View Post
Actually upon thinking on it further, I had to respond to this more thoughtfully.

The sites you are talking about are, I think except for DarthHater (which is Curse, Inc. which is a multi-national dotcom, 19mil hits a month) all at best semi-pro and mostly all fan sites. Fan sites are ephemeral in many games.

SWTOR is in the news every day by the professional games press, for good or ill.

If the games press were an old-style journalism sort of thing, without comment streams, SWTOR's coverage would probably look much better than it does. However, comment streams make every AAA game out there look like crap, particularly the ones that don't have very crafty and clever social media folks who are both very adept and close to the fans. EA/Bioware seem to just have money at the corporate level, and do neither of those other things all that well.

But the current fashion in MMORPGs is that a vocal minority of gamers who love to guild up and raid -- let's call them the Piranhas -- dominate the social media metagame of the online world of MMOs. They spend all their free time that they are not gaming on Twitter, in comment streams, filing scathing reviews on Metacritic, you name it. Their hobby is to be gaming hipsters, essentially -- to see how snarkily and cuttingly they can shred a game to show off how sophisticated a gamer they are among their leet peers.

These are the armchair generals of MMOs.

So as a game emerges from pre-beta, these guys (and they are by vast majority male IRL) are scoping it like Fantasy Football dudes evaluating draft picks. They start talking about how it is or isn't like WOW, how it's prospects are to be F2P or why it will suck before the company publishes any terms at all. A cinematic trailer at E3 will erupt a crapstorm of vitriol. A change of devs will start doomsaying avalanches. A choice of distribution channels. From a bunch of idiots who really at root know zip about running a business. They mostly just like to listen to each other mouth off wise.

So when head start comes or beta or pre-beta, these guys descend like the school of piranha. They will get in as soon as possible. They will insist on top of the art graphics, performance, story, content, support -- but they will SKIP all of the two years of content that the devs put into the game.

Within two days, they have raced each other to level cap, where they will be ************ to the universe about how:
  1. It's too easy to get to level cap
  2. there weren't enough side quests even though they didn't stop to smell the npcs along the way
  3. the story (which they didn't read) sucked
  4. the end game is grindy and too much *and* not enough like WOW

And at this point, with all the variations on the theme (I'm sure you can come up with all the rest) they will call on the producers and the devs to have a summit with all the guild leaders to fix the doomed game, because only they can save the game. They will travel to Iceland or Austin or something, drink themselves silly, insult the female gender in any way they can in the majority, further confuse and ruin the game for crafters, roleplayers, people who like story, people who *do* spend time on content and so on, and then upon returning to the game and the forums, say no one listened to them....

And leave to destroy the next game.

I am tired of it. SWTOR did not fail the players. EA and a segment of players failed SWTOR. And that segment of players is failing the industry and will be making it impossible for a AAA game to get VC money within two years, I suspect. It's not a pretty picture in the industry right now.

/* retired game CEO and VP Marketing/Bizdev */
** Just thought I would make a post and say I 100% agree. The above is so true its sad. Anyways going back in game :P

SOULCASTER's Avatar


SOULCASTER
11.03.2012 , 02:43 PM | #69
I miss SWG

bahdasz's Avatar


bahdasz
11.04.2012 , 07:01 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by SOULCASTER View Post
I miss SWG
Here here. And, Hi!