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Rotation, Rotation, Rotation - Carnage - Ranked Setups + Strategies

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sith Warrior > Marauder
Rotation, Rotation, Rotation - Carnage - Ranked Setups + Strategies

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
09.24.2012 , 06:38 AM | #1
I get a lot of questions about my rotation. I have Vindicator Set Bonus so my priority is as follows:

Force Charge -> Battering Assault or Assault (Depending on whether BA is on CD) -> Massacre -> Gore -> Force scream -> Ravage -> Dispatch

I use Ravage and Deadly Throw to control enemy players or to peel for healers.

UPDATED 9/26/2012 - Wanted to Clarify rotation a little more clearly.

Obviously when one of those abilities is on CD I go to the next one on my priority list. But just BECAUSE Gore is off CD does not mean to use it, Force Scream after a Gore -> Massacre is your LARGEST damage boost. If Gore just came up but you have 2-5 seconds before FS comes back up use BA/Assault to ensure you have rage for the Gore -> Massacre -> Force Scream Combo.

Now if you have Ravage up, then you want to Massacre *Pause for GCD* then Gore -> Force Scream -> Ravage. You do that so that way you can get the full 100% armor penetration on Force Scream AND Ravage. When Ravage is on GCD then you Gore -> Massacre -> Force Scream for optimal DPS.

You always want to use Massacre at least 3-5 seconds(?) before Force Scream because you will gain a 10% damage boost on your next Force Scream + Blood Frenzy to ensure an Autocrit on Force Scream. (For those who are new to Carnage)

I rarely use Berserk for damage, especially in rateds, I quite frequently hold predations for situations where my healer comes under heavy pressure or we need to make a fast swap to a different node to defend or attack.

I use Bloodthirst prior to any large engagement where it'll give the most people a huge benefit, so usually at the start of a massive brawl for mid or south. (Or I'll just use it when I'm *********** around and I know I can break a 7k+ crit in regs, never in Rankeds will I waste it like that). Bloodthirst ONLY works on the people in your group of 4.

What I think are Optimal RWZ Setups, but with gear being equal, player Skill > Class (So don't invite *******s just because they are one of the below classes) but if you have the following run it:

These are my favorite setups, I'll explain why:

1. Juggernaut Tank, Assassin DPS/Tank Hybrid, Operative Healer, Sorcerer Healer, 2 Power Techs, 2 Marauders
2. Juggernaut Tank, Assassin DPS/Tank Hybrid, Operative Healer, Sorcerer Healer, 1 Power Tech, 2 Marauders, 1 Sniper

Juggernaut Tank for the peeling power - Their job is to peel for healers, and keep taunts/intercede up on players being focused.
Assassin Tank with DPS gear - Stealth Defender, can solo defend a node for ages or a stealth cap.
Operative Healer - Best healer in the game, best defensives and escape mechanisms coupled with instant cast heals.
Sorcerer healer - Most powerful + consistent single target heals, with force speed and lifegrip an essential for fast swaps + Huttball.
1-2 Power Techs - Best AoE damage and Single Target burst damage in the game with 2 stuns, one being an AoE.
1 Sniper - Great for defending, lots of control power, great damage in the hands of a monster.
2 Carnage Marauders - Double Predations, force camo swaps, great burst + 3 roots for control, AoE CC, tons of defensive CD's (We're amazing, we all know it).

This is my favorite setup so I'll go over the strategies with this one:

1. Juggernaut Tank, Assassin DPS/Tank Hybrid, Operative Healer, Sorcerer Healer, 2 Power Techs, 2 Marauders

Voidstar Offense

The main raid going to HARD (No Faking) right or left side will be the Jugg, Operative, Sorcerer, Power Techs and Marauders, the Assassin will go to the other side solo.

Now this is the crucial part, as you have your main raid engage on the left side, one of the Marauders will Predation, then both the Marauders will Force Camo and swap to the side with the Assassin. The enemy team won't have any idea where you two went. (I un-originally nicknamed this the "Camo Swap") Watch the enemy rez door, don't initiate the swap until there is 1 pie (Or 5 second tick) left on the door, by the time you get to the other side it will be at 4 pies (20 seconds) door timer.

Your PT's should be pulling + AoE Stunning anyone trying to swap to the side you guys are doing your switch on.

If there are two defenders the Assassin will CC one from stealth, the other Marauder will pop Bloodthirst and all 3 of you will precede to gib the other player, then gib the final defender. Have the Assassin start capping while one Marauder stops a defensive swap with Intimidating Roar + Stun Grenade from one side and the other Marauder is at the rez spot with an Intimidating Roar + Stun Grenade.

This will either cause the defenders to over rotate to the side you are on getting you the cap on the other side, or you will get the cap. If it doesn't work out, join your main raid then set the "Camo Swap" back up.

Voidstar Defense:
1 Juggernaut Tank on one side with a Marauder.
1 Assassin Tank on one side with a Marauder.
Everyone else rotate as needed, in a pinch a Marauder can Frenzy + Predation to go help on a side only if the other team will get a cap if said Marauder doesn't swap.

Civil War: (Let's Pretend you're on the Snow, Mid, Grass side)
I'm a fan of the 2/4/2 initial start setup.
Assassin Tank goes Snow, one of the Powertechs runs interference, once snow is capped and clear the PT goes Mid.
The Two Marauders will chain predation back to back to ensure getting to grass long before the enemy team and stops the cap. If both Marauders are good you with coordinating CC's you can 2v3 or 2v4. If you and your teammate are good you will do one of the following: You will cap the node you are going for, or cause them to overextend so much to prevent you from capping it that your team gets middle. If you cap the node send one of the Marauders to Mid and call incs early so he can rotate back to help you. Best case scenario you get all 3 nodes because of it.
Everyone else middle.

Novare Coast: (Let's Pretend you're on West Side)
Assassin Tank goes West
Both Marauders goes East chaining predations. If you and your teammate are good you will do one of the following: You will cap the node you are going for, or cause them to overextend so much to prevent you from capping it that your team gets middle. If you cap the node send one of the Marauders to Mid and call incs early so he can rotate back to help you. Best case scenario you get all 3 nodes because of it.
Everyone else south.

Huttball:
Best part about my listed setup above is that it has 3 pulls. Assassin and 2 Power Techs. Using this properly will make it impossible for the other team to cap unless you are getting outplayed. You're PT's (Or PT + Sniper) + Operative should be controlling mid with the Operative only coming to heal offensively if the Sorcerer goes down and the tank needs heals to get across. The Marauders should be playing both Offensively and Defensively.
Too dynamic to really describe, you should all know to play ahead, use predations when the fire pit goes down, etc.


Focus fire is clutch, and very important. At South, or Mid or in Voidstar setup a instant kill on a healer. Most will stand behind their DPS causing your DPS to overextend if you go for them. Coordinate with one of the PT's to pull and quick swap to the healer. If everyone expects this to happen you can drop their healers fast. Most send 2 healers to Mid, PT pull one healer everyone focus fire and gib him, PT pull second healer everyone focus fire and gib him, begin working on DPS. Another reason why having 2 Power Techs is very important. IF YOU ARE PULLING AN OPERATIVE HEALER RUPTURE HIM SO HE CAN'T VANISH AND GET AWAY.

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
09.24.2012 , 06:44 AM | #2
General Tips:



This again is me posting my video, if you watch closely you will see I do a lot of the below tricks (Especially against the Snipers):
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=530862
The first 2 mins is crits, but after that it goes into 1v1's, 1v2's, peels, then a full unedited Voidstar match.

This is my gear setup (Doesn't show Biochem Stim): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=525404



Keybind all your abilities.

Don't backpedal, it's always faster to strafe. I don't care about what argument you have explaining how you find it better to do so in some one in a million scenario. It is wrong in any situation.

Do not keyboard turn.


Always use Obfuscate

BUY WARZONE MEDPACS AND WARZONE ADRENALS - Rakata Medpacs are terrible and you're crazy if you don't think having a 15% damage reduction is important in clutch moments.

BUY V-1 SEISMIC GRENADES - This is the most powerful and cheap AoE CC in the game because you control where it happens versus having to be in melee range of 5-6 guys. On Voidstar Offense use the grenade as they land on the jump on the pillar, use Intimidating Roar for people who trinket/jump down, then Deadly Throw / Ravage anyone with full resolve who won't can't get CC'D. In Novare / Civil War you can throw it in the back to CC both healers, or stop a cap from ranged.

If another Carnage Marauder Ravages you, don't just sit there and eat it. Obfuscate it. Intimidating Roar it. Force Camoflauge it. Grenade it. You should never get hit by the final tick of a Ravage.

If you see your healer has 2 or more on him Charge back to him, Intimidating Roar / Grenade to give him time to kite. If one trinkets use Deadly Throw on him, Ravage another player. It'll buy your healer time to kite and top himself off while you start killing the DPS on him. Remember if you forget your healer and let him die you'll soon follow.

If an Assassin is glowing purple, means he is going to parry a lot of your attacks and take reduced damage, you can use CC's on him during this. Intimidating Roar, Force Crush or Grenade. Save your damaging attacks while he's purple and use you're CC on him during this.

If an Assassin is glowing Yellow then none of your Force Attacks will work, do not Intimidating Roar, Grenade, Force Choke or waste Gore -> Force Scream. Use Deadly Throw to root, kite for a few seconds, then get back on them. You can DPS him while he's yellow as well, but you can only use stuff like Ravage, BA, Massacre. I'd save Gore because the yellow buff only lasts 3 seconds and you can gore -> FS him right afterwards for 5k.

If a Mercenary Healer pops his energy shield which makes him immune to interrupts -> Force Choke -> Intimidating Roar -> Grenade, makes him waste the CD then kill him.

If you see a Sorcerer healer try not to necessarily Force Charge him at the start if you can avoid it, save it for Sprint + Knockback if you know he has it up, if you know he has used it recently Force Charge away. Rotate Deadly Throw and Ravage to keep him immobile.

If it's a Power Techs (Pyro) -> Try to save Force Charge for when he starts trying to kite you, use deadly throw as soon as you think he'll start kiting. After he stuns + snares and gets distance use force camo to remove the snare and to get back into melee range, and Force charge again after that if he gets his range again. It's pretty obvious when this is about to happen. You can also grenade him as well to get back into range. Use your defensives fast because they will drop your health if you don't.

Operative DPS - As Sinsavz pointed out Trinket the second stun and pop Cloak of Pain + Warzone Adrenal immediately AND RUPTURE. This will prevent the instant vanish if he has all his CD's giving you several seconds to beat on him or make him waste his vanish. You will still have saber ward up as well when you need this. If you see the Operative for a split second in stealth which happens on occasion immediately pop Cloak of Pain as they will begin their opener on you.

Operative DPS or Healer - Whenever an Operative pops Evasion (Green looking bubble) force choke him, grenade, or intimidating Roar. The evasion only lasts about 5 seconds? It's usually gone by the end of a force choke. If all of that is down or he's taking focus fire or full resolved which breaks the mezzes then use Rage builders like Assault and Battering Assault because even though he is dodging your attacks you will be building rage to dump all at once when it ends.

Against a Sniper, when he's got his red shield up, always try to position yourself near a wall so when he tries to knock you back, he doesn't knock you far. If he does knock you back far, force camo the root immediately. Trinket the flashbang, you'll have to eat the short stun.

The most powerful tool of Carnage is your burst. You're goal is to get the target as close to 0% as possible before they pop a defensive CD. If they pop it early, force camo, intimidating roar, grenade, swap targets until it ends. 90% of the fights I go against players try to reserve their defensive CD's for when they need it (Most players pop them around 80-70% HP), But if you Force Charge -> 500-1k -> Battering Assault (1.5-2k?) -> Massacre (2-2.5k?) -> Gore (1k) -> Force scream (4900-5300) all of a sudden they dropped from 80% hp to 20-40% hp and they will spam their defensive CD's but by this point you can finish them off easily with Ravage and Dispatch. Get the damage up fast, don't give your opponent time to hit a single Defensive CD.

If you are trying to cap the ball in Huttball and you get pulled in the direction of any of the fire pits IMMEDIATELY POP UNDYING RAGE. before you arrive to where he's gripping you 95% of the time it's an Assassin or PT pulling you into a Fire Pit. This will buy you time to survive the stun + Fire Pit. If you do not have Undying Rage up immediately Force Camo, you can usually run out of the fire pit + reset the ball instead of giving it to the enemy team.

When planning swaps to another node or door, don't just say "HEY EVERYONE GO LEFT", what that does is cause players to trickle in one by one, letting your opponent know whats going on and gives him time to prepare a defense or call out incoming. Coordinate my infamous "Camo Swap", or in the middle of a big fight somewhere say "You, you and you go get ready to go here I'll pop predation", the rest of your team will stay where they are at, stall them while you run at 180% speed to a poorly guarded node.

If you are fighting 1v2+, use and don't think you can take them don't try to rambo them all. Your job is to stay alive long enough for reinforcements at a node. Start with a V-1 Seismic Grenade. When they trinket that stealth, then interrupt their caps, at this point they should be grouped enough to hit them with an intimidating roar. When that ends pop your defensive CD's (Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward, Warzone Adrenal.) pop Warzone Medpac before you get to <30% (I like to pop mine at 60% because I never like getting anywhere near execute Range), then undying rage when you're down to < or = to 20% HP. Doing this you can solo defend a node for 20-30 seconds if you have all your CD's up.

(If you are on Mumble/TS/Ventrilo) Frequently ask your healers if they are in trouble, sometimes you won't know because they are so busy trying to heal themselves that they don't say anything on vent. (Good healers won't have this problem most of the time.) Let your healer or DPS know you are about to root or CC the guys on them so run the **** on. Let your healer KNOW you are going to pop predation. Pretty much if you are about to fart, let your healer know.

The most important tip I can give you is to pay attention to what's going on around you. Situational Awareness is possibly the most important thing a player can do (Next to not backpedaling, keyboard turning, and clicking). If you are at a node and it's 6v2 that means there are 6 enemy players unaccounted for. Start rotating to your less defended node, I guarantee a swap will occur shortly. If your team loses the 5v2, then you would have lost anyway. This is especially important on Voidstar as many pug matches are lost because 5 guys are trying to finish off a 20k HP tank while the enemy is trickling in on the other side and killing the defense. If you watch the video you will especially notice this as I move from side to side on defense. (It is the last 9 minutes of the video)

NEW TIPS *9/26/2012

A common misconception is that Willpower has no effect on us at all. Not saying go out and wear Willpower gear, but the Willpower Datacrons gives us more Force Bonus damage and more Critical chance. I'm a hardcore Min/Maxer so I found this useful.

Ushuma-Orbi's Avatar


Ushuma-Orbi
09.24.2012 , 08:49 AM | #3
Megatfx:

I just want to thank you for all your advice and help, to be honest, with your guides and setups I'm a better player.

Thanks again for the time you invest to create this awesome threads.

Kind regards.

By the way, what do you think of the rage spec in 1.4, d oyou think will be better than carnage?

Greetings!
Ushuma Orbi
Invictus Tenebrae

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
09.24.2012 , 08:53 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Ushuma-Orbi View Post
Megatfx:

I just want to thank you for all your advice and help, to be honest, with your guides and setups I'm a better player.

Thanks again for the time you invest to create this awesome threads.

Kind regards.

By the way, what do you think of the rage spec in 1.4, d oyou think will be better than carnage?

Greetings!
For Rateds there will always be one Carnage Marauder at least. But the second will probably be Rage. With the changes it looks like they are streamlining Marauder Rage to be just as effective if not better than Juggernaut Rage and with my power build I'm sure you can break 6-7k crits extremely often.

Free Rage, instant Smashes. It'll be the new FOTM. But Predation is so effective you will be gimping your team if you they don't have at least one.

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
09.24.2012 , 09:20 AM | #5
As stuff pops in my head that I've forgotten to mention I'll be editing the posts to add that information. So occasionally check back.

Sinsavz's Avatar


Sinsavz
09.24.2012 , 11:56 AM | #6
Good writeup, Powertechs don't have a knockback though which I presume you know and you just got them mixed up with pyro mercs.

I also wouldn't advise breaking (I don't like/get the term trinket ) a DPS Operatives first stun. It only lasts 1.5 seconds and they usually follow it up with the 4 second stun, which is the one you should break.

Very good stuff apart from that.

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
09.24.2012 , 11:59 AM | #7
Yep, fixing it now.

Trinket comes from WoW. That's what the item is called that you use to break CC's/Stuns/Roots in the game.

Revearith's Avatar


Revearith
09.24.2012 , 05:02 PM | #8
You may want to Charge, Gore Ravage, Scream and forsake Massacre. From what I've seen 80% of my Gore < Ravage I get Blood Frenzy which is an auto Crit + the 10%(less from execute but you get the full ravage damage that outweighs an extra 500-550 damage scream.

Something to parse one day
Went from baking cookies in the Emperor's oven to moping the cantina's floor.

Wookieenator's Avatar


Wookieenator
09.24.2012 , 05:38 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Revearith View Post
You may want to Charge, Gore Ravage, Scream and forsake Massacre. From what I've seen 80% of my Gore < Ravage I get Blood Frenzy which is an auto Crit + the 10%(less from execute but you get the full ravage damage that outweighs an extra 500-550 damage scream.

Something to parse one day
I'll let the OP respond to this as well but entering in my 2 cents on the topic.1 I usually do charge gore ravage scream in normals, and if a player that I know is good or is catching on to what I'm doing I adjust to massacre gore scream, and save ravage for if they have stun/knockback on cd or for a root. In ranked against a good team you should not be getting a full ravage off unless you're resolve-capped in which point go for it, or you can try a gore ravage on a player that's heavily into combat, i.e. being focused by several players, using a long channeled ability, or in the middle of setting up a vital rotation. Using a gore scream though ensures that you will hit because they are all insta-cast (like a pt) and will take at least 50% of their health.

arkitip's Avatar


arkitip
09.24.2012 , 07:16 PM | #10
Assuming Ravage will get the final tick interrupted in some way is a good philosophy, which is why I actually am a big proponent of using Berserk + Massacre spam more than others seem to be. It's the highest pressure you can put on someone, especially healers.

Parse it if you haven't, 3x Massacre with Gore will do 9-10k damage more often than not which is up there with a Ravage (although yeah Ravage will do more if you get crits and get all 3 ticks off). The thing is that Massacre spam is difficult to escape AND difficult to heal through because it happens as quickly as it does.