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Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

Spatology's Avatar


Spatology
09.22.2012 , 04:02 PM | #21
He stated that some tanks have 30-32k hp.......

I didnt read beyond this statement. It is a flat out fallacy. BIS tanks are around 24-25k hp. Tanks stacking some endurance are around 27-28k(stacking endurance is bad atm). I dont think its probable you have seen any 30k hp tanks, much less one with 32k hp.

Lutese's Avatar


Lutese
09.22.2012 , 04:19 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Gritfiend View Post
Endurance Tank = Fail Tank
100% correct.

I recently was brought into another guilds run to heal a HM EC.

Their "main" tank was super squishy and I had to heal them a LOT more than the tanks in my guild on the same pulls - fights.

They had a good 2-3k more endurance than the tanks in my guild.

The tanks in my guild have a good 200 - 300 more defensive stats.

I parsed a boss fights and compared it to one of the fights I parsed with my guild.

I had to heal the endurance stacking tank almost 100k more over the course of the fight vs. what I have to heal my guilds tanks.

That is 100k of wasted heals.

Any tank that is stacking endurance over mitigation is making their healers work a lot harder than they should have to.

24-25k is plenty of health for the content we currently have.

Look instead at your total combined defensive stats.

If you are not @ 1,500-1,600 in total combined defensive stats you are doing it wrong.
(1,600 - 1,700 with one pvp relic, 1,700 - 1,800 with two)

matapat's Avatar


matapat
09.22.2012 , 04:35 PM | #23
Mitigation-wise Juggs are fine, and are not really appreciably better or worse than Shadows or PTs.

Threat generation & dps output are another story, I've seen our dps PT pull aggro a lot easier off our Jugg tank than either our Shadow or PT tanks. Personally I'd hoped BW would've looked at this in 1.4 and maybe reverted the change to Crushing Blow/Guardian Slash or addressed it some other manner. Not looking like it's happening, though.

Weeblie's Avatar


Weeblie
09.22.2012 , 05:15 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Wraiven View Post
Jugg Tanks are the least desired Tanks in any Ops run. Regardless of how your personal Tank performs. There is a reason for this.
The reason is because they are the most difficult ones to play with respect to threat generation. Many Guardian tanks fail to keep aggro from the Sentinels in one's group.

Shadow tanks also receives their own share of dislikes, and then usually from healers. An improperly played/geared Shadow tank takes a lot more damage than either of the other two tank classes.

Vanguard is the only tank class that's considered to be foolproof.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wraiven View Post
So you say that you prefer a Jugg on your teams? You say a Jugg is completely on par with all the other Tank Classes? Tell that to almost anyone you talk to in game.
Well played Guardians tend to outperform other well played Vanguards due to the latter's heavy reliance on passive mitigation. Shadows are kind of a special case since they have access to arguably the strongest situational defensive cooldown in game (i.e. resilience) and which sometimes allows them to reshape the nature of certain boss fights.

I'm fairly certain that most high end guilds consider a Guardian/Shadow tank combo to be the strongest general purpose one today.
"Nothing is impossible because impossible itself says I M Possible."

JoeeyyMagzz's Avatar


JoeeyyMagzz
09.22.2012 , 05:56 PM | #25
From a healing and personal experience perspective, I have a few comments about tanks in this game.

Shadow/Assassin - Because they have self-healing, several amazing defensive CD's, stealth, and a mez there are a ton of players playing as one of these, which also means that there are a lot of bad players playing these classes. If Shadow/Assassin tanks are played correctly, then they are the best tank in the game, especially when it comes to utility. Shadow's/Assassin's have superior group and average single target threat generation. They really put out sub-par damage though. When it comes to an Ops group, these are must have for their utility.
Amazing Avoidance/Sub-par Mitigation

Guardian/Juggernaut - Without a doubt in my mind, they are the best single target tanks in the game. When spec'd/geared properly, they can output an average amount of damage and can really take a beating while allowing healers to heal improperly positioned DPS or heal through ops mechanics. When it comes to a large number of mobs, these tanks really need to use LoS or other tactics to get all mobs grouped up together and use their 1 AE taunt and 1 decent threat generating AE attack wisely; or better yet, just leave the AE tanking to the Shadow/Assassin in the group. When it comes to an Ops group, these tanks are never a necessity, but they can be very helpful.
Average Avoidance/Average Mitigation

Vanguard/Powertech - These tanks typically have the most health in the game and they also have a ton of shield chance/absorption making healing them easier than Guardian's/Juggernaut's and slightly less easy than Shadow's/Assassin's. Of all of the tanking classes, Vanguard's/Powertech's put out the most damage and have a very powerful cone attack for keeping threat on a group of mobs. When it comes to an Ops group, these tanks are typically only desirable if you're hurting for an extra 150-300 dps over the other tanks on boss fights. Although, there are a few Vanguard's/Powertech's out there that are truly amazing at their class and will make you want to bring them over the other tank classes.
Sub-par Avoidance/Amazing Mitigation

My opinion for best tanking duo is Shadow/Assassin and a Guardian/Juggernaut or two Shadow/Assassin tanks. I have healed every tanking make-up there is, but I just like healing this duo. The absolute worst time healing I've ever had was when we had a Vanguard "main" tank with just over 30k health. He was obviously missing a lot of other stats and thought that his health alone would make him an amazing tank.

Darkabysslord's Avatar


Darkabysslord
09.23.2012 , 02:50 AM | #26
Im not saying that jugs R a weaker Tank or cant hold there own, Its just they R missing something. I didnt how bad it was till my ops group Switched to 2 jug tanks dying on simple mobs being a solo target tank its 2 hard 2 hold big group of range mods. And ya we hav force leap but PT hav a jump too and Assassion got Force Speed. Jugs R the least want with Tank Low Hp, Weak Mods Agrro, Weak Damage, Not Range Skils, No Useful self Healing, Not Pull.
The pull every helpful In the Kephess Fight 4 pulling bomber out of the Black Aoe Damage.
If U played a Jug U kno.

Darkabysslord's Avatar


Darkabysslord
09.23.2012 , 02:58 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Spatology View Post
He stated that some tanks have 30-32k hp.......

I didnt read beyond this statement. It is a flat out fallacy. BIS tanks are around 24-25k hp. Tanks stacking some endurance are around 27-28k(stacking endurance is bad atm). I dont think its probable you have seen any 30k hp tanks, much less one with 32k hp.
B4 Swithcing out my mods I was up to 29500 and Got a PT in My Guild With 32k HP And Ive Seen Assassion Over 30k B4 asking make Share U kno what Ur talking about.

Right Now with Stim and Buff im at 28k With 25/50/51

alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
09.23.2012 , 03:30 AM | #28
That's because they're all stacking Endurance. I can see it being useful for an Assassin, but more than like 28k for a PT is a bit overboard, you lose too much mitigation. Sure time to kill increases but there's nothing in-game atm to warrant needed such a large TTK.

I've said all I need to say in my last post about why Juggs are still very useful and others inc healers have said their piece, yet you're still unconvinced. As for why people prefer a PT or Assassin in their group...just like others mentioned, its because most people have had bad experience with Jugg.

And why have most people had bad exp? Cause its a difficult class to play, but there's too many morons out there who can't play their class properly. I don't know about Assassins, they seem to have a lot of control, but speaking from a PT point if view...its such an easy class to play. You got like 6 main buttons and a few cooldowns. Since its so easy to play you're less likely to run into bad powertrchs.
Kazar - Powertech, [Tomb of Freedom Nadd EU]

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
09.23.2012 , 04:46 AM | #29
OP needs 2 lern 2 grammer.

Kudos to the others who were able to decipher those posts. They make my head hurt.

Jarlgon's Avatar


Jarlgon
09.23.2012 , 05:00 AM | #30
the best Tank I have seen was a Vanguard, massive amount of health and mitigation, they rule when played right.