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Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
09.22.2012 , 12:08 AM | #11
I do think the defence/immortal tree needs some love.

Freezeing force is useless, get rid of it.

Guardian Slash really is under whelming for the "defence cap" skill and many guardian tanks don't even bother with it.

I'd also suggest putting Unremitting into defense (how many guardian tanks have leapt at something, gotten stun and lost agro to ranged DPS as a result?)

guardians/Juggs aren't utterly useless by any means, but they could really use some love.

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
09.22.2012 , 12:47 AM | #12
Only really sad thing is that guardian/juggernaut are forced to put 1 skillpoint into Dust storm a 100% useless skill
in both pve pvp to continue putting points higher up.Not to mention the dps they can perform is lower then other tanks.
Of course the developers have ignored al this feedback, other then that it's a good class.

SentinelDranoel's Avatar


SentinelDranoel
09.22.2012 , 04:50 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
I do think the defence/immortal tree needs some love.

Freezeing force is useless, get rid of it.

Guardian Slash really is under whelming for the "defence cap" skill and many guardian tanks don't even bother with it.

I'd also suggest putting Unremitting into defense (how many guardian tanks have leapt at something, gotten stun and lost agro to ranged DPS as a result?)

guardians/Juggs aren't utterly useless by any means, but they could really use some love.
Freezing force is useful for voidstar and huttball, completely useless in pve.

I disagree about guardian slash, they changed it in 1.3. I get mad when I see Guardian tanks and do not use it. Let me show you why:
http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/...5f4def4ef5ef3:

After 1.3 they added Purifying Sweep which now can now add 4 stacks of armor reduction. They lowered the damage of Guardian Slash, but it now can strike 2 more people when the person you are targeting is affected by 5 stacks of armor reduction. Standard and weak enemies are knocked down and it generates high threat. I have tanked with a Powertech and a Sith Assassin, but Guardains have been my favorite class to tank with since that 1.3.

With the relic that gives a 50% chance of sheilding, I do not have to use blade storm as soon I start a fight. When going into a large group I use Force Leap, Force Sweep to the group, Sundering Strike so my target has 5 stacks of armor reduction and then Guardian Slash.
and the Force beat generic Swords and Magic any day. 8/26/14 That was my old signature but after RotHC, I went back to superheroes and swords and magic. Now waiting on Dragon Age and a SWTOR story expac for my Bioware fix

alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
09.22.2012 , 05:50 AM | #14
Everyone secretly wishes their class is the best despite claiming they just want it to be balanced :P

End of the day, the dev quotes from that interview speak for themselves. First you thought PTs and Ssins had knockbacks, which we dont. Secondly, Sins have a pull, Juggs have a charge, PTs have both.

Again I agree they may lack one or two utilities, but these are the things that make classes different. They are the most balanced though, and I genuinely do believe a great player playing a Jugg vs an equally great player playing a Sin or PT will perform just as well in most scenarios.

And about HP. Cba explaining why some feel high HP is prefferred wheras others prefer achieving maximum mitigation, but for example, my main is a PT tank. Apart from Orange Belt and Bracers I'm pretty much BiS gear. I have 25k hp, 20.1% Defense, 54% Shield and 58% Absorb.

Currently my spec has the Flame Burst and Rocket Punch talents chosen to produce higher damage and threat, and my gear is pretty balanced but favouring mitigation. Which is pretty much fine for farming current content.

Prior to Terror from Beyond coming out, I plan to drop the extra damage talents to get the 3% Endurance (which is like 700 hp) and trading a couple of Augments or Enhancements to boost my buffed HP to about 27k. Going beyond that seems like too much of a loss in mitigation, even for progression content. Increasing the time-to-kill is great, but too far down any side of the spectrum is gonna be worse than balance.

You said you have 26k HP, that's more than satisfactory. Stop worrying about the HP, I understand that looking at HP is often used as a measure of how well geared a tank is, but only a naive player would solely judge a player on their HP value.

As for the tools, as I said, they have some. Look at your defensive cooldowns for example, Juggs are the ideal tanks for situations where heavy cooldowns are required to survive phases of extremely high damage (Think Toths Bezerk phase etc).
They lack a CC, not a big deal. They lack a pull, something which is useful for trash in PvE but not very useful for boss-fights, which is what matters. They lack ranged damage, well that's just something you gotta deal with. As for PvP, yeah the pull is quite useful there, as are ranged attacks. But in return you have Guardian Leap or Intercede, a truly awesome skill in Huttball for example. Also useful in PvE and PvP such as getting out of an AoE by leaping to a teammate.

Without sounding rude, you're focusing too much on your class' negatives without taking into account all of the class' positives. If you still refuse to see that your class is very useful, then I don't know what else to say other than roll an Assassin or PT then. Juggs could use a small tweak sure, but nothing major. They're quite close overall to the other two tank classes. And as I said before, tanks are most likely the most balanced classes in the game compared to the differences in DPS classes and Healers.
Kazar - Powertech, [Tomb of Freedom Nadd EU]

SnipeAlott's Avatar


SnipeAlott
09.22.2012 , 05:55 AM | #15
BiS for my jugg would mean somewhere around 23.5k.

All the math I have seen so far proves that dropping every endu you can for defensive stats benefits more than having 25k HP

Kaisernick's Avatar


Kaisernick
09.22.2012 , 06:20 AM | #16
though not exactly what the op is on about i would like it if my jugg had some sort of group pull, can be hard for him to keep agro on spaced out blaster mobs in HMFP

Marb's Avatar


Marb
09.22.2012 , 07:34 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaisernick View Post
though not exactly what the op is on about i would like it if my jugg had some sort of group pull, can be hard for him to keep agro on spaced out blaster mobs in HMFP
This is a situation all tanks find challenging.

OP: The defence/immortal tree needs some love to make it more attractive than hybrid, but other than that juggs are fine.

Having a hp skill would bring them in line with the other tanks, but really what would you want to give up for 3% more hp. The hp skills on assass/pt's are extremely uninteresting and provide trivial benefit. Your not missing out on much.
Harbinger

ArsenalJaycen's Avatar


ArsenalJaycen
09.22.2012 , 07:36 AM | #18
I have 26k health and hit the 30/50/50 and have no issues tanking EC HM 16man. I always make it my goal it keep the 30/50/50 and then see what I can push to gain any more endurance without effecting the others. I pretty much have best in slot I think to what I can get it.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...3-f63ee9ff468f

It is 24848 without the Rakata Endurance Stim which tops me up at just over 26k. The stim also gives 54 defence which sends me over 30%.

With that gear set up and stats I have never had issues and even held off Kephesis on 16man HM when he enraged the first time we ever killed him.

On that Mr.Robot link if you click the wish list I have built up the next set of gear that I want to get from patch 1.4 and TFB. Which should top me off around 27485 and still hit the 30/50/50. But with the bad itemization of the new gear it will take a while.

Gritfiend's Avatar


Gritfiend
09.22.2012 , 03:49 PM | #19
Endurance Tank = Fail Tank

Wraiven's Avatar


Wraiven
09.22.2012 , 04:00 PM | #20
Ok, here is another one of those threads where the OP has a legitimate complaint, yet there are people that come out of the wood work to tell the OP that he is wrong.

You guys are going against EVERYTHING that is said in game. Jugg Tanks are the least desired Tanks in any Ops run. Regardless of how your personal Tank performs. There is a reason for this. The player base in game don't just decide these kinds of things because it just happens to be some type of popular belief. He has a point, even if his point is not worded with proper English, his point still stands.

You guys on the boards can pretty much claim whatever you like. Your claims are not going to change the popular opinions of the in game player base.

So you say that you prefer a Jugg on your teams? You say a Jugg is completely on par with all the other Tank Classes? Tell that to almost anyone you talk to in game.
Republic: Krulex (Shadow) Kn (Guardian) Krll (Sentinel) Wanatrime (Vanguard)
Imperial: Wraiven (Assassin) Krullous (Marauder) Krawl (Jugg) Xin (Jugg)
♠♠♠ The Soulstalker Legacy ♠♠♠
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