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Consolidated Post: APAC/Oceanic Server Concerns

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Consolidated Post: APAC/Oceanic Server Concerns
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WizardsDestiny's Avatar


WizardsDestiny
03.28.2013 , 05:34 PM | #4581
Quote: Originally Posted by soneil View Post
Awesome post and re-inforces 2 points that I heartily agree with.

1. Many people complaining about lag haven't actually tried playing on a US server and are speaking out of ignorance. I also, have played on both and found minimal difference. If people have tried both and found the lag is bad, then I think that's a valid opinion. Not those who are purely speculating though.

2. This would all go a lot more smoothly if we got better communication. I'd love an APAC super server. That would solve population problems without complaints about lag. It wouldn't be ideal for RPers but most of us RPers realise that we could still do it on a PVE server. An APAC super server it's not going to happen though. We've been lucky to get three locally hosted servers. Most MMO games don't do it. No way bioware would support just one server. It's about cost, and the sooner bioware are honest about that rather than the BS about improving player experience, the better. If they were honest about it, I think people would be more understanding about it and then discussion could focus on how to make the transition go smoothly, rather than obsessing on something that's not going to happen.
Thank you. Your points are good ones, too.

I thought it was about time someone like me who is against the NA Transfer provided some fact rather than mindless venting of anger through speculation.
There is only Power, and those too weak to seek it.

WizardsDestiny's Avatar


WizardsDestiny
03.28.2013 , 05:37 PM | #4582
In saying that there are some self important trolling fools who think that because they're for the server merge they're superior to everybody else and 'cleverer.' Not all in favour of it are like that, don't get me wrong; but the trolls really just need to clear off and leave people in peace.
There is only Power, and those too weak to seek it.

Infernixx's Avatar


Infernixx
03.28.2013 , 05:42 PM | #4583
Quote: Originally Posted by WizardsDestiny View Post
In saying that there are some self important morons who think that because they're for the server merge they're superior to everybody else and 'cleverer.' They need to clear off.
You should probably edit your post to be less insulting.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Infernixx nailed it. This is correct.
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
There is no excuse for any single use item to ever cost more than a month's subscription. Anyone who pays $10 or $20 for a single use item is hastening the death of TOR and feeding the rise of TOR:The Cash Shop Menace.

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
03.28.2013 , 05:46 PM | #4584
Quote: Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
You do realise that ppl already on the US servers may loose their names again when oceanic players are forced on those servers!
I doubt it BW will use the same metric they used for the second merge for super servers. First, you guys are given a choice of server to transfer into and second NA players have already been through two mergers. Now I do agree that APAC players should get access to names from players who don't play any more, but I doubt it any current player on the west cost server will lose their names simply due to the fact that those players have already gone through two mergers. This will be the third time for those players. Most likely the transfers will be like they were the first wave of NA server mergers. Finally, the second wave of mergers were not like the first mergers. The super servers were new servers with much higher capacity, but were given previous server names. Thus, we all transferred to a new server.

Currently, you apac players are transferring to an existing populated server like what happen during the first major wave of merging or transfer for NA and European servers. The second merger for NA and European were transfers to new super severs with the same name of the old normal servers and they further consolidated servers. The situation is exactly the same as it was the first time NA and European were transferred during the first wave. Plus, their is a higher probability that an aussie player will quit than their NA counterpart. Thus, I don't believe BW will want to upset their main clientele with these third wave of transfers.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Less armour = moves faster = more dodging = less getting hit.
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Oh.. there is plenty of complaining in this thread. As well as demands, expressions of entitlement, and wild dreams.
Lovely Andryah the Forum Princess

ChuangTzu's Avatar


ChuangTzu
03.28.2013 , 05:56 PM | #4585
Quote: Originally Posted by Knockerz View Post
I doubt it BW will use the same metric they used for the second merge for super servers. First, you guys are given a choice of server to transfer into and second NA players have already been through two mergers. Now I do agree that APAC players should get access to names from players who don't play any more, but I doubt it any current player on the west cost server will lose their names simply due to the fact that those players have already gone through two mergers. This will be the third time for those players. Most likely the transfers will be like they were the first wave of NA server mergers. Finally, the second wave of mergers were not like the first mergers. The super servers were new servers with much higher capacity, but were given previous server names. Thus, we all transferred to a new server.

Currently, you apac players are transferring to an existing populated server like what happen during the first major wave of merging or transfer for NA and European servers. The second merger for NA and European were transfers to new super severs with the same name of the old normal servers and they further consolidated servers. The situation is exactly the same as it was the first time NA and European were transferred during the first wave. Plus, their is a higher probability that an aussie player will quit than their NA counterpart. Thus, I don't believe BW will want to upset their main clientele with these third wave of transfers.
Mergers are still be enforced, the same rules on who keeps their names should apply.
"Words are for conveying ideas, but when the ideas are understood, you forget the words. How I would love to talk to someone who's forgotten all the words!" Chuang Tzu

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
03.28.2013 , 05:59 PM | #4586
Quote: Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Mergers are still be enforced, the same rules on who keeps their names should apply.
You forget that one major factor into keeping names is how many times you been merger. That alone will trumpet any apac player if said players has been through two mergers already and has played since the game launched. There was a cs rep that specifically mention this about the metric they used to determine who gets to keep what. Thus, since this will be the third time west coast players go through mergers and if said player has been playing since launch of the game, then they will keep their characters names purely based on them having gone through more mergers than apac players.

This is of course assuming that BW uses the same metrics like they did for the second mergers waves in NA and European servers. If these transfers are treated as such like the first wave of transfers in NA and Europe, then you have no chance at all of keeping any names. In either case the chances of APAC player of keeping their names compared to a existing NA player who been playing since the game launch are slime to none.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Less armour = moves faster = more dodging = less getting hit.
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Oh.. there is plenty of complaining in this thread. As well as demands, expressions of entitlement, and wild dreams.
Lovely Andryah the Forum Princess

DaftVaduhhh's Avatar


DaftVaduhhh
03.28.2013 , 06:16 PM | #4587
Quote: Originally Posted by Knockerz View Post
WOW doesn't have localized aussie servers either so the problems you find here with ping will be the same. Thus, saying wow is looking good is a moot point as you will experience the same core problems. However, I do believe they have localized Brazilian servers in addition to the Euro and NA servers, but they don't have any aussie localized that's for sure.
It is not a moot poot because of the way WoW was originally designed, and has been maintained since.

Between the network coding, the networking (Battle.NET) and the game mechanics being originally built on a system designed to support dial-up users, WoW has a lot going for it in high ping environments.

SWToR, from the code level up, has none of these safety nets and enhancements. Only very recently in MoP have high ping users started to have concerns in WoW raids, and if Blizzard are true to form, the content will be nerfed in time to make it accessible to the less hardcore components of the community.

If only BioWare could institute a project built off fundamentals other than story.
Daftvaduhh - 55 Shadow - GM of <Beyond Redemption> (The Harbinger)
La-femme - 55 Sage, Woklobster - 55 Guardian, Opfreely - 55 Sentinel
Drworm - 55 Commando, Rollface - 55 Vanguard, Leeloo'd - 55 Scoundrel, Rolling-deep - 55 Gunslinger

ChuangTzu's Avatar


ChuangTzu
03.28.2013 , 06:40 PM | #4588
Quote: Originally Posted by Knockerz View Post
You forget that one major factor into keeping names is how many times you been merger. That alone will trumpet any apac player if said players has been through two mergers already and has played since the game launched. There was a cs rep that specifically mention this about the metric they used to determine who gets to keep what. Thus, since this will be the third time west coast players go through mergers and if said player has been playing since launch of the game, then they will keep their characters names purely based on them having gone through more mergers than apac players.

This is of course assuming that BW uses the same metrics like they did for the second mergers waves in NA and European servers. If these transfers are treated as such like the first wave of transfers in NA and Europe, then you have no chance at all of keeping any names. In either case the chances of APAC player of keeping their names compared to a existing NA player who been playing since the game launch are slime to none.
But let's face it BW/EA are not in the habit of pleasing ppl, would not surprise me if they managed to piss off you guys as well.
"Words are for conveying ideas, but when the ideas are understood, you forget the words. How I would love to talk to someone who's forgotten all the words!" Chuang Tzu

laz_AU's Avatar


laz_AU
03.28.2013 , 06:43 PM | #4589
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...em-into-1.html

647 signatures on the petition... that's a lot of subs and cartel coins
Leader of Nocturnal | Impaled on The Harbinger (Ex-APAC)

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Riku - Sage Healer
Excubitor - Focus Sentinel
Equiti - Vanguard Tank/DPS

AndbeKeper's Avatar


AndbeKeper
03.28.2013 , 06:48 PM | #4590
Quote: Originally Posted by soneil View Post
Awesome post and re-inforces 2 points that I heartily agree with.

1. Many people complaining about lag haven't actually tried playing on a US server and are speaking out of ignorance. I also, have played on both and found minimal difference. If people have tried both and found the lag is bad, then I think that's a valid opinion. Not those who are purely speculating though.

2. This would all go a lot more smoothly if we got better communication. I'd love an APAC super server. That would solve population problems without complaints about lag. It wouldn't be ideal for RPers but most of us RPers realise that we could still do it on a PVE server. An APAC super server it's not going to happen though. We've been lucky to get three locally hosted servers. Most MMO games don't do it. No way bioware would support just one server. It's about cost, and the sooner bioware are honest about that rather than the BS about improving player experience, the better. If they were honest about it, I think people would be more understanding about it and then discussion could focus on how to make the transition go smoothly, rather than obsessing on something that's not going to happen.
I agree with with you soneil. The communication strategy at the moment leaves a lot to be desired. While I hope that this all turns out to be some early April Fool's day joke, I know that it's not the case and have to accept that I either have to live with the massively increased latency or quit the game. Better communication from EA would help a lot in this case.

In case Eric or anyone else from the community team is still bother to read this, here are some things that would help us to know:
  • There still has been no official communication about the changes other than the forum post. This adds to the perception that they are trying to hide the decision. Letting their customers know is important.
  • Approximately what time frame are we talking about? Weeks? Months? If the forced move is not for a few months, then those of us who do find the lag on US servers unacceptable may still be able to get through the expansion content that we pre-ordered.
  • It's been stated that Bioware has tested the higher latency we will get once the move has gone through and found it acceptable. Could you please give us more information. At what ping does it become unacceptable? And what does acceptable mean? There's quite a bit of difference between "a pro-gamer with a max gear character who has the encounter perfectly memorized didn't go so badly that the group wiped on a story-mode flashpoint at 200ms ping" and "average gamer being able to complete the final boss on a HM with the recommend level of gear after a half-dozen goes at 400ms ping".
  • Is there anything being done to help mitigate the latency increase? Are you implementing a tunneling service to help reduce the lag? Are you implementing something similar to the Quartz add on for WoW, which gives an latency indicator on the casting bar to give you a 'best guess' on when to start your next action. Giving everyone connecting above a certain ping time a free Alacrity buff to pull down their activation times ?
  • Stating what the refund policy that Billing Support is using instead of leaving it up to individuals to find it out for themselves.

The reason this would help is because, right now, all they have done is create the prospect that we may find that our game experience will decrease to personally unacceptable levels at some unknown time in the future. By giving more information, we would be able to make informed decisions instead of us having to base our decision to continue to subscribe based on our gut feelings.

I made a character Begeren Colony (where my characters are going to end up) last night and had my concerns about how high the ping would be confirmed. I was getting 360ms while on Tython - so roughly speaking it looks like I will be getting a 0.3s delay on all actions over what I get on Gav Daragon. From my past experiences in WoW, which had similar ping times, I am now concerned that I will see a similar level of problems with any game action requiring timing. In WoW, I found that when I started using the Quartz add-on which helped give a much better idea of when I should be sending a command, helping to reduce the effects of lag, I found my DPS & healing went up by ~15-20%. If I do 20% worse in SWToR once I have to move to Begeren Colony, will I have the right to pull a group down by that much? I don't want to cause the group to fail because of me.

As it stands right now, the only way I could find this out is to wait to the transfer and then try run something like the final fight of HM Directive 7 and see what happens. My subscription expires in a month. Given all the uncertainty I'm not sure if I should just give up now and seek a refund for my pre-order of RotHC. I'd still be just as disappointed as I would if I wait around, try the move and find that my fears are confirmed, but at least I'd have a bit more money to go towards finding a replacement to SWToR. The current communication strategy isn't making this easy.