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Round 1: Asajj Ventress vs Bastila Shan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Round 1: Asajj Ventress vs Bastila Shan

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.15.2012 , 09:48 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by VigDiath View Post
Which is why we only see the top Jedi/Sith from that era. And as far as which era has the more powerful Force users, it's not about the era but the individual. As an individual the Council entrusted Bastila with the mission to take out Revan. That says a lot. Many individual Force users from ALL eras stood out on their own because of their abilities. Bastila was one. Ventress was another.

But in my opinion, Bastila wins. I won't say it would be an easy win. Ventress is cunning and deceptive. But she also allowed Yoda to yank hger lightsabers from her own hands lol. While Bastila lost hers in a crash I doubt she would let ANY Jedi Master take her lightsaber from her. It's engrained in Jedi that the lightsaber is their life.
It actually is a matter of era. Pretty much every Jedi Master on the Council is the best in their chosen form ever seen. Ventress has been able to go toe to toe with most of them.

Yoda would walk all over Bastila. His mastery of the Force is the greatest in the PT order and he is the second most powerful Jedi of all time.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

bahdasz's Avatar


bahdasz
09.15.2012 , 11:02 AM | #22
Apparently a lot of people never saw the original CW series episode when Asajj was introduced and became Dooku's apprentice.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
09.15.2012 , 11:43 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by bahdasz View Post
Apparently a lot of people never saw the original CW series episode when Asajj was introduced and became Dooku's apprentice.
I have.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.15.2012 , 12:27 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by bahdasz View Post
Apparently a lot of people never saw the original CW series episode when Asajj was introduced and became Dooku's apprentice.
I have as well. I have the series on DVD.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
09.15.2012 , 12:32 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by bahdasz View Post
Apparently a lot of people never saw the original CW series episode when Asajj was introduced and became Dooku's apprentice.
Not being rude or anything, but what's your point here?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
09.15.2012 , 01:55 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Fixed that for you, it took the most powerful line of the Sith of all time, hiding in the shadows and growing stronger over a thousand years to produce the greatest master manipulator the galaxy ever saw, then have him stack the deck so high against the Jedi Order that he'd already won, to beat them.
While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
09.15.2012 , 02:05 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.
Sorry but you are wrong, the Jedi Order of the PT is flat-out more powerful by orders of magnitude over any other BUT the New Jedi Order, this is canon fact backed up by the fact that the Masters of the PT Jedi Order, crush any masters of any time before them.

Your idea that war makes a a Jedi stronger is the complete opposite of everything the Jedi are and stand for, conflict makes the SITH more powerful, the nature of the Dark Side is the strong survive, the weak die, the Jedi way and the Light Side is exactly the opposite, a Jedi becomes more powerful by becoming closer and closer with the Force, through much meditation and training, whilst conflict can make a more battle orientated jedi more powerful, it is not the best way by a long shot and usually leads to Dark Side temptation.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.15.2012 , 02:33 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.
1. It was an elaborate plan that brought the Jedi down. Everything that happened in the prequels was by Sidious' designs. He started a fake war for two purposes: Destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy. The Jedi Order was caught flat footed. No one could have guessed what Sidious was planning and that's what killed the Jedi Order. the final stage of Sidious' master plan was swift. The Jedi Order fell in a matter of days.

2. Conflict makes the Sith strong. It is conflict that increases the strength of the Dark Side- through death and destruction and spilling the blood of jedi. The Jedi grow in strength through peace and meditation- by increasing their connection to the Force. If anything, conflict makes the Jedi weaker and increases the chance of young Jedi falling to the Dark Side.

3. Many of the Sith Bastila faced were mere acolytes. They weren't even full Sith. And Ventress has been trained to kill Jedi by Count Dooku- the greatest user of Makashi and arguably one of the most powerful Sith ever. Bastila may have killed many Sith, but Ventress has killed masters.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
09.15.2012 , 02:58 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by bahdasz View Post
Apparently a lot of people never saw the original CW series episode when Asajj was introduced and became Dooku's apprentice.
Eh? Last I checked, she never became Dooku's apprentice he denied her.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
09.15.2012 , 03:48 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
1. It was an elaborate plan that brought the Jedi down. Everything that happened in the prequels was by Sidious' designs. He started a fake war for two purposes: Destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy. The Jedi Order was caught flat footed. No one could have guessed what Sidious was planning and that's what killed the Jedi Order. the final stage of Sidious' master plan was swift. The Jedi Order fell in a matter of days.

2. Conflict makes the Sith strong. It is conflict that increases the strength of the Dark Side- through death and destruction and spilling the blood of jedi. The Jedi grow in strength through peace and meditation- by increasing their connection to the Force. If anything, conflict makes the Jedi weaker and increases the chance of young Jedi falling to the Dark Side.

3. Many of the Sith Bastila faced were mere acolytes. They weren't even full Sith. And Ventress has been trained to kill Jedi by Count Dooku- the greatest user of Makashi and arguably one of the most powerful Sith ever. Bastila may have killed many Sith, but Ventress has killed masters.
I'm not disagreeing that it wasn't a complex plan, I'm just saying it shows nothing of the Jedi's strength as Order 66 had little to do with combat. I can see what your saying about peace making the Jedi stronger, thats something I hadn't considered . Even so, Bastila does have experience, so she has a small advantage here.

Personally though I'd side with Ventress, purely because she is more skilled with a lightsaber. Although Bastila may have a chance of defeating her through the force alone, and perhaps with reinforcements.