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Whos the bad guys?


Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.11.2012 , 05:31 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post
When you create your character (NOTICE I SAID WHEN YOU CREATE YOUR CHARACTER), you are told The Empire and it's citizens seek and desire "power" above all else. It also tells you they subjugate other races (practice slavery). I think it even mentions them being racists too. They are pretty much the definition of evil, but since Bioware gives you the option to play your empire character as a good guy it creates confusion. Don't confuse star wars lore with Bioware's implementation of a morality system.
I'm not.

Kaisernick's Avatar


Kaisernick
09.11.2012 , 05:37 PM | #42
Good is a point of view, the sith and the jedi are are equal in almost every way, including their quest for greater power

TheNegotiator's Avatar


TheNegotiator
09.11.2012 , 06:15 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Izutah View Post
Nice to see all these replies with different views on the subject. See i honestly havnt read much on the history etc but yea as some stated before the writer has made the sith come across as bad guys whilst republic as the good

I personally think that the world is full of religions in our case its sith empire and republic (i know its technically not a religion) and so forth theres going to be wars etc though if you stop for one moment and imagine the whole entire galaxy was rule by either just the empire or just the republic there will still be somthing to fight about.
Go watch the original trilogy and you will understand. Just to let you know the Empire uses to death star to blow up Alderaan and every living thing on it.

liammozz's Avatar


liammozz
09.13.2012 , 09:25 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post
Go watch the original trilogy and you will understand. Just to let you know the Empire uses to death star to blow up Alderaan and every living thing on it.
now go take a trip to the death star and ask people on it, do you think what your doing is wrong and evil, they will say no of course not the ones we are fighting are evil, its all perspective

HellbirdIV's Avatar


HellbirdIV
09.13.2012 , 09:37 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by liammozz View Post
now go take a trip to the death star and ask people on it, do you think what your doing is wrong and evil, they will say no of course not the ones we are fighting are evil, its all perspective
Generally it comes down to the philosophical debate of "Is an evil act evil if the perpetrator believes it is good?"

The answer is yes. Yes it is. If you commit murder because someone looks at you wrong, and you think you were totally justified in doing so, you are crazy. Being crazy, you do not have the ability to make a rational judgement on morality. Therefore, your idea of what is "good" is incorrect.

The Empire is evil. If you think it isn't, you're insane, and therefore wrong.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.13.2012 , 10:19 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by HellbirdIV View Post
The Empire is evil. If you think it isn't, you're insane, and therefore wrong.
Why am I suddenly reminded of the moral parallels between Ozymandias and Rorschach? One takes a consequentialist/utilitarian approach and the other has a very strict deontological/fundamentalist code, both believing themselves absolutely right, both committing acts of evil and totally opposed of each other.

There's no denying that from our perspective the Empire is... well, I hesitate to call it evil, the people within it commit evil acts but I find it hard to believe that every single citizen is one button away from committing genocide. It's really just higher up on the scale of evil than some of the other organisations in the galaxy. I should really roll a Pub character and see where the Republic falls.

HellbirdIV's Avatar


HellbirdIV
09.13.2012 , 10:53 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Why am I suddenly reminded of the moral parallels between Ozymandias and Rorschach? One takes a consequentialist/utilitarian approach and the other has a very strict deontological/fundamentalist code, both believing themselves absolutely right, both committing acts of evil and totally opposed of each other.
And they were both out of their damn minds, which was my point! xD

Naturally my statement does infer that you have the necessary information available to you (which we, as players, always do) to make an accurate judgement. If you don't know that the Empire makes a habit of exterminating people who are the wrong skin color, you can't judge them for it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I find it hard to believe that every single citizen is one button away from committing genocide.
You have to judge the Empire as an institution separate from the individuals. Suffice to say the average Imperial citizen cares only for their own livelihood (Though Imperial citizens are shown to be more morally dubious and conniving and selfish than the average Republic citizen) and is only interested in staying within the confines of the Empire's established rules. Which are evil.

Even though you as a Sith player can be completley goody-two-shoes (I should know, my Assassin was Light III despite all of the people I shocked for the lulz), that's only because you are working against the system.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
It's really just higher up on the scale of evil than some of the other organisations in the galaxy. I should really roll a Pub character and see where the Republic falls.
The Republic as a whole is mostly good, but it has its share of extremists and crazy people. As I said above though, you have to judge the institution, not the individuals.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.13.2012 , 11:10 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by HellbirdIV View Post
You have to judge the Empire as an institution separate from the individuals. Suffice to say the average Imperial citizen cares only for their own livelihood (Though Imperial citizens are shown to be more morally dubious and conniving and selfish than the average Republic citizen) and is only interested in staying within the confines of the Empire's established rules. Which are evil.
Are you trying to fault people for wanting to survive the society in which they live? It's not as if Imperial citizens can pack their bags and leave so easily. The Sith code marks the basis for the Empire's social Darwinism, you either learn to work by or you die - citizens are only 'morally dubious' by outside measures. It could be seen as a more extreme version of stealing food to feed a starving family. Perhaps you have an Imperial citizen who disagrees with the Empire's current way of running things, they'll still have to abide by the laws of the state to a certain extent. You can do no good if you're dead.

FoolsErrand's Avatar


FoolsErrand
09.13.2012 , 11:11 AM | #49
I have 4 imp characters and 2 pub ones so I've had a good look at both sides. Like with any war both sides have their heroes both have people of virtues and both have their extremist nutjobs. The difference is that in the republic, the nutjobs are a minority that have to keep their views hidden from the public. In the empire, the nutjobs make the official policies and generally kill those who oppose them.
Never give up! Never surrender!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.13.2012 , 11:21 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaisernick View Post
Good is a point of view, the sith and the jedi are are equal in almost every way, including their quest for greater power
Said by the greatest manipulator in the galaxy. Point: invalid.
Added Chapter 44 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus