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Why the Vanguard is considered balanced by EA/BW.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why the Vanguard is considered balanced by EA/BW.

kingrimlock's Avatar


kingrimlock
09.10.2012 , 01:41 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DacRycar View Post
Heh, yeah, that was the first thing that came to mind after I posted: "Huh, maybe a patch note just went up..." D'oh!

As for the change, I'm trying to visualize it. Obviously any "gap closing" rotation went right out the window. This feels very unbalanced as "other melee" classes have a gap closer whether it be a charge, a sprint or an ambush from steath. However, we still have Harpoon, which may now be considered a viable opener, abet on a very long cooldown. Hrmm...

This obviously doesn't change our rotation or damage once we're in range, which is the biggest complaint players have.
You won't need a gap closer against melee classes because naturally they will come to you in order to dish out damage. Like I said the biggest encounter that these changes will affect is with snipers, as good ones will be able to put out a considerable amount of damage on you before you get in range for your burst rotation, not to mention they have multiple knockbacks/stuns in order to keep you out of that 10m range. If you catch that sniper out of cover though and can pull him/her in, then game on.

Asukaa's Avatar


Asukaa
09.10.2012 , 01:43 PM | #12
Since playing the VG to see what all the complaints were about... I can see it. With my VG I don't do more dps than other classes, but I deal all my dmg up front in 1 string of bursts. No one can really survive it excepts tanks. I think that's what people hate 1v1. But when in a cluster f * ck of people ae'ing and maybe one range focusing me, I don't stay up all that long, actually I stay up for a decent amount of time if my shield cd is up. Nothing close to mara's/sents or shadows/sins tho.

Most classes ramp up to their burst, VG's/Pyro's burst is immediate. With the best gear, a VG/Pyro can take out about 2 people within 10 secs of lucky bursts. It is a bit "wth!?" but after that they don't have any ammo and are sitting ducks for a good while. I don't think BW/EA really understand the mechanics as I believe devs don't really know how to play any classes in PVP. I don't think they care for PVP at all. Look at all the future plans they have... PVE based with 1 measly wz thrown out there for pvper's.

tehrealdealz's Avatar


tehrealdealz
09.10.2012 , 03:01 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Asukaa View Post
Since playing the VG to see what all the complaints were about... I can see it. With my VG I don't do more dps than other classes, but I deal all my dmg up front in 1 string of bursts. No one can really survive it excepts tanks. I think that's what people hate 1v1. But when in a cluster f * ck of people ae'ing and maybe one range focusing me, I don't stay up all that long, actually I stay up for a decent amount of time if my shield cd is up. Nothing close to mara's/sents or shadows/sins tho.

Most classes ramp up to their burst, VG's/Pyro's burst is immediate. With the best gear, a VG/Pyro can take out about 2 people within 10 secs of lucky bursts. It is a bit "wth!?" but after that they don't have any ammo and are sitting ducks for a good while. I don't think BW/EA really understand the mechanics as I believe devs don't really know how to play any classes in PVP. I don't think they care for PVP at all. Look at all the future plans they have... PVE based with 1 measly wz thrown out there for pvper's.
Agreed. I think that's why most players think a Vanguard is "OP". We deal our damage up front BUT the trade off is our low to zero survivability when focused. Only defensive CD we got is a crappy shield on a 2 min CD and a crappy HoT that sometimes you wonder if it is even healing you it does so little healing. Basically, a Vanguard has no outs in pvp. No cloak, no force speed, no self healing. We are the one class that you will find yourself dying ALOT in WZs when focused. Bottom line EA/BW knows this im sure and will leave Vanguard the way it is.

oredith's Avatar


oredith
09.10.2012 , 03:07 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Asukaa View Post
With the best gear, a VG/Pyro can take out about 2 people within 10 secs of lucky bursts.
i was with you up until this point.

10s = 6 GCD. lets say 7. even giving you a freebie up front, 8 abilities.

you will only be able to use thermal detonator once.

so, you open with:
  • incendiary missile
  • thermal detonator
  • railshot
  • (assuming you're in range now)rocket punch
  • railshot
assuming all 5 crits, and you're in WH gear, vs. a recruit, it is possible that you just killed him

now let's review where you're at.

you've now used up 5 of your 8 GCDs, with 3 to go, no thermal detonator, and prototype particle accelerator is now on cooldown, and won't be up again within the time you have.

so now, you have no rail shot, no rocket punch, no thermal detonator.

explain to me how you're going to kill the 2nd guy in recruit gear with 3 abilities?

gross exaggeration only makes your entire argument less credible.
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Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
09.10.2012 , 03:08 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by tehrealdealz View Post
Agreed. I think that's why most players think a Vanguard is "OP". We deal our damage up front BUT the trade off is our low to zero survivability when focused. Only defensive CD we got is a crappy shield on a 2 min CD and a crappy HoT that sometimes you wonder if it is even healing you it does so little healing. Basically, a Vanguard has no outs in pvp. No cloak, no force speed, no self healing. We are the one class that you will find yourself dying ALOT in WZs when focused. Bottom line EA/BW knows this im sure and will leave Vanguard the way it is.
I think you PT/Vanguard guys are in denial. You just got jacked. At this point you are on rough parity with Merc Pyros. Who were already the worst dps subclass in the game. And then got nerfed again in 1.4. Under the 1.4 mechanics PTs are going to be dog food for concealment dps. Of which there will be MANY.

Coldin's Avatar


Coldin
09.10.2012 , 03:16 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroecon View Post
I think you PT/Vanguard guys are in denial. You just got jacked. At this point you are on rough parity with Merc Pyros. Who were already the worst dps subclass in the game. And then got nerfed again in 1.4. Under the 1.4 mechanics PTs are going to be dog food for concealment dps. Of which there will be MANY.
Except nothing changed for concealment ops besides a 30 second reduction on the escape skill, and a short duraction 50% sprint. It's not really anything that will turn the tide too much if the battle is losing.

Trisma's Avatar


Trisma
09.10.2012 , 03:42 PM | #17
"No survivability"
Heavy armor.
Reactive Shield
Instant
Cooldown: 120s
Reduces all damage taken by 25% for 12 seconds.


"Can't heal ourselves"
Adrenaline Rush
Instant
Cooldown: 180s
Restores 15% of maximum health over 10 seconds.


"Can't stealth"
Stealth Scan
Instant
Cooldown: 20s
Range: 30 m
Fires off probes that scan the area for stealthed opponents. The probes last for 10 seconds.
Nobody else can stealth either.

oredith's Avatar


oredith
09.10.2012 , 03:48 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Trisma View Post
"No survivability"
Heavy armor.
Reactive Shield
Instant
Cooldown: 120s
Reduces all damage taken by 25% for 12 seconds.
yay, again we have the "heavy armor" argument!

please remind me again how helpful that heavy armor is against force attacks?
Quote: Originally Posted by Trisma View Post
"Can't heal ourselves"
Adrenaline Rush
Instant
Cooldown: 180s
Restores 15% of maximum health over 10 seconds.
woohoo. with 20k HP.. that's a..
let me use some toes to count here..
300 HP per second! WOOHOO!!!!!
Quote: Originally Posted by Trisma View Post
"Can't stealth"
Stealth Scan
Instant
Cooldown: 20s
Range: 30 m
Fires off probes that scan the area for stealthed opponents. The probes last for 10 seconds.
Nobody else can stealth either.
except the stealthers can see the area you're probing. ..

oh, you mean the ones that are already in combat with you? yeah, stealth's not much of an issue, but mostly because they only pop stealth long enough to use their shoot-first type ability.
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Reveillere's Avatar


Reveillere
09.10.2012 , 04:26 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by oredith View Post
yay, again we have the "heavy armor" argument!

please remind me again how helpful that heavy armor is against force attacks?
woohoo. with 20k HP.. that's a..
let me use some toes to count here..
300 HP per second! WOOHOO!!!!!

except the stealthers can see the area you're probing. ..

oh, you mean the ones that are already in combat with you? yeah, stealth's not much of an issue, but mostly because they only pop stealth long enough to use their shoot-first type ability.
How useful is heavy armor against force attacks? You're serious? You hide behind good language but it's obvious you lack basic knowledge of the game.

Try playing a class with light armor then you'll realize how important heavy armor is.

Saying vanguard isn't overpowered is wrong. It's overpowered in terms of damage, it has low sruvivability, sure, but it still has a bit too high damage (as many others in this game, cough marauders and snipers)

/guy with war hero powertech/war hero marauder/war hero assassin/war hero sniper/war hero operative

oredith's Avatar


oredith
09.10.2012 , 04:32 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Reveillere View Post
How useful is heavy armor against force attacks? You're serious? You hide behind good language but it's obvious you lack basic knowledge of the game.
I think it is you who needs to gain some basic knowledge of game mechanics.
Quote: Originally Posted by Reveillere View Post
Try playing a class with light armor then you'll realize how important heavy armor is.
interestingly, light armor is EXACTLY the same effectiveness as heavy armor vs. force attacks, because armor does not mitigate force.

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