I am getting very frustrated trying to gear up in fp's. I ask politely to not skip bosses and people just don't care. What's the point of putting bosses in if you are just going to allow players to skip them? I even got kicked from a couple fp's for asking twice to do a boss. Unreal.

Are you a DPS? If so you are at the whim on the tank/healer unfortunately. If they wanna skip you're skipping or kicked.

 

Are you a Tank? Wait time to replace you is high. Offer to leave and find a new group instantly if they don't want to do the bosses. They'll see things your way.

 

Are you a Healer? You are in between the tank and DPS in terms of replacement time. If the tank wants to skip you're still pretty much stuck with it. If its the DPS, just stop healing them and they'll come around pretty quick.

 

Now there are some nice people out there that are willing to do the extra bosses but I'm talking about who has how much power in the group.

That's my point. I am dps and I don't get a choice. It's not very fair if you ask me. And kicking because I don't want to skip? That seems like it's wrong. As far as I knew kicking was for rude players afk players and ninjas.

I agree with the OP. One optional/bonus boss per instance, which you can choose to activate by clicking on something or completing bonus quests, is fine. Generally you would not expect to do these in a PuG/Group Finder run.

 

It is just dumb to have bosses with a 1 millimeter wide zone you can squeeze through and skip. In my opinion it encourages a culture of exploiting and cheapens the content. In Taral V, you can complete the entire flashpoint by fighting only one boss.

 

Rather than trying to identify and eliminate all the tricks and exploits, the easiest solution is surely to make the daily contingent on defeating all the bosses which are not intended to be optional/bonus.

just grab some tionese/recruit then start doing SM Ops, you will gear up much faster.

I agree also. It seems like poor design. In my view all bosses, except the bonus one, should be required quest steps to complete the flashpoint.

I have two differing opinions on this.

 

This first is with the incentive of BH comms for doing content that rewards fresh 50s it creates a setting where you have players like me who just want to rush through to get those 5 comms to work on improving their gear from the rakata they have. I just want to finish this so I can move onto content that is more challenging to me or play on my other characters so I can work on gearing them as well.

 

Then you have the new players who would like a chance at the xenotech, the exotech, the tionese gear/crystals. I feel bad for these players when they are trying to make an effort to improve their gear but are being stopped by others. Now I'd like to say I've never skipped an optional boss that people wanted to do before but I have. I had no idea what it dropped but told them it was probably worse than the free recruit gear you get from the pvp vendor and just ran by. On the other hand I have also stayed in groups after many wipes because I saw that players wanted to finish the FP to improve their gear so I tried to figure out how we could finish it so they could have their chance at the columi.

 

I think the daily GF rewards should be looked at and optimized to more help prevent this drastic split in priorities in groups.

 

 

 

As an aside I think a cool concept for a new flashpoint would be a stealthy flashpoint where the intent is to try to skip content. So rather than being the 4 man commando team that is kicking down the door and asking questions later type deal that flashpoints are designed as, I would like to have one where stealth is the goal. Just as a few quick ideas the enemies you fight could be extremely tedious to fight and could call in backup to slow you down. It could trigger doors and defenses that would appear that slow you down as you progress. It could add extra mechanics to the final boss if you trip any alarms. But if you do make it through to the boss without alerting the guards you are rewarded by having a less challenging boss fight or simply a quicker run with some different dialogue options. Again these are just some quick thought provoking ideas I came up with in the couple mins I took to write this. I just figured this would be something different than what we currently have now.

That's my point. I am dps and I don't get a choice. It's not very fair if you ask me. And kicking because I don't want to skip? That seems like it's wrong. As far as I knew kicking was for rude players afk players and ninjas.

 

And that is the problem unfortunately. If you play a tougher role you get more pull in the group. DPS are often viewed as the scum of the earth that's only there so the tank and healer don't hit enrage timers. Without enrage timers there would be no need for DPS in FPs at all. I'm not saying that they are always viewed that way, but its definitely there.

 

You cannot run any FP without a healer unless you over gear it massively (or its Esseles SM).

You cannot run any FP without a tank unless you over gear it massively (again, except Esseles SM).

 

Honestly, roll a tank. They're much more fun you just have smaller numbers flying off the mob.

Tweaking the FP design to make them not skippable could be tricky and it might take some time.

People acting like dirtbags because of the skipping are doing so not only because they're rolling a tank (or to a lesser extent, a healer), it's because they get the BH comms regardless of how they behave themselves.

 

You skip bosses, you get 2 comms, you kill the "mandatory" ones, the 5 we currently get, you kill the bonus boss as well, 6 total. Something like that. There will much less skipping this way.

That sounds like a good idea to me.

 

I don't need need gear for any of my characters (don't even need BH comms for my healer) and I have never been with a group that skipped anything when someone needed a drop. So continue to ask, not everyone is jerks.

 

If I am in the group we will kill the boss, even if we have to kick the tank. I've done more than a few without a tank on my healer and a couple without a tank on my shadow. If the healer doesn't want to do it, then that is another story altogether.

Tweaking the FP design to make them not skippable could be tricky and it might take some time.

 

The simplest solution would be to tweak the FP advancement quest (the one that adjudicates what you have to do to advance within the instance) to require the bosses to be killed. You would have to kill every boss along the way to simply advance through the various locked doors and conversation options.

 

I'm ambivalent concerning boss skipping. I understand that some people want to get the extra gear, but I don't really think it's worth it to fight the minibosses since they only drop world drop blues and purples (which are lower rating than tionese even). The only real boss that can be skipped is the droid boss in Taral V, and, honestly, if someone insists on fighting him, I'll fight him. I'd really rather just skip past any skippable minibosses though. The drops just aren't worth the time.

 

Keep in mind, it's also easier and faster to gear up by running SM Ops than it is to run HM FPs (which just seems wrong to me and is remarkably counter-intuitive for most players). Unless you get *really* unlucky with drops and rolls (or have the misfortune of running with a bunch of other people in your same class that also need gear), you're going to get more gear, way faster out of running SM KP and EV than you are going to get out of a week's worth of random HM FPs.

To the OP, join a guild. Most guilds run gearing up ops where a few higher geared players will take a group of people needing gear on an op. You will get gear much faster that way. I have found that fps are better for getting comms rathter than to directly gear up. Also, you can ask guildies to run flashpoints with you, who will be more willing to do all the bosses if you want to do them. Generally, pug groups are motivated towards the fastest way to finish a fp.

I must say, guild runs are always a great way to go so I second that suggestion. Nothing can replace the social aspect of gaming and finding a group with people you know is always the best way to go. You make friends and do it.

 

The only time you'll find me in the group finder is if I want to boost my black hole commendations, I think it's a bad idea to have in a game. I always rush through flashpoints and often finish in under half an hour. I never have to skip bosses to do this. We skip trash, but never bosses. If people are rude they don't deserve your playtime, I'd put them on ignore list or re-roll with a different group. There is no excuse for being rude or saying that you don't get a say in the group. Actually, I have never encountered people that rude in group finder.

 

I only queue with my sentinel and I've never had an issue with people thinking damage dealers are less important, because obviously in this game damage is essential. And I can fully tank any of these flashpoints with a healer and my friend and I used to do these with two companion healers when we were in Columi/Rakata gear (though it's quite challenging) so don't listen to people thinking tanks are more important or some nonsense like that. Everyone in important and if you know how to play well you can set the tone and pace of the group no matter what class you are.

I recently dinged 50 on an alt and part of me was looking forward to working my way through the progression. Dailies for the armorings and mods, then hard modes for Tionese, etc.

 

Boy did I feel silly when my free recruit set turned out to be better than any of that crap.

 

If you're killing a boss that isn't going to give you columi or better, you're wasting your time.

I only queue with my sentinel and I've never had an issue with people thinking damage dealers are less important, because obviously in this game damage is essential. And I can fully tank any of these flashpoints with a healer and my friend and I used to do these with two companion healers when we were in Columi/Rakata gear (though it's quite challenging) so don't listen to people thinking tanks are more important or some nonsense like that. Everyone in important and if you know how to play well you can set the tone and pace of the group no matter what class you are.

 

Everyone is important but not everyone is easily replaced. If you attack the boss with the two big cats in Taral V, I will vote you out. Trust me, there are always more sentinels. You don't even need a good one (thankfully) for hard modes.

 

On the other hand, if I'm stuck in Esseles with people who insist on watching convos, I will leave, do a warzone, and queue again for another insta-pop.

 

And people ask what benefits there are to rolling tank.

 

(I should add that I've never had either situation happen to me and usually my lfg groups are fine and a good experience)

If you're killing a boss that isn't going to give you columi or better, you're wasting your time.

 

This.

 

People skip to waste less time killing junk bosses for junk drops.

 

If you want to waste time, get friends together. Don't waste 3 strangers' time for no appreciable gain.

I think if you are queue'ing up for HMs through group finder, 90% of the time it's people who only want to run the FP for black hole comms. So maybe you could try going back to the old method of spamming fleet chat for a group and asking for people join a full run for boss loot. would be cool if the GF included preference options that you could check for 'skip cutscenes' or 'watch cutscenes' or 'bonus quests' etc. but this would likely cut down the number of groups formed because sever pops aren't high enough to support this. so finding a group that suits your needs is probably going to be better off being formed outside of the group finder

I am getting very frustrated trying to gear up in fp's. I ask politely to not skip bosses and people just don't care. What's the point of putting bosses in if you are just going to allow players to skip them? I even got kicked from a couple fp's for asking twice to do a boss. Unreal.

 

so true people just don't care anymore yet complain about that fresh under geared 50 in the group. then say go do a story mode ops which is even harder to get in and can be only done once per week. if you have enough under geared people in a story ops the gear received wont be any greater and you run a chance of failure.

 

the hms have become a race with a bh carrot at the end with people doing some of the dumbest things trying to skip 20 secs of combat. it really isnt the bh coms causing this but rather how the hm are designed. this is the only mmo i have played where you can skip so much content and still finish the zone. the fun is gone. guild groups are what myself and most of those in my guild does now and not pugs.

so true people just don't care anymore yet complain about that fresh under geared 50 in the group. then say go do a story mode ops which is even harder to get in and can be only done once per week. if you have enough under geared people in a story ops the gear received wont be any greater and you run a chance of failure.

 

This is true. Some here say "hey, go do sm Ops, it's easier to gear up", but then it's another problem.

Couple of weeks ago I pugged with my healer KP with the group finder. Most of us were overgeared for that, but one of the tanks wasn't (a mix of recruit gear with some purples from the dailies). Couldn't hold aggro on Jarg to the sniper and merc dpsing there (campaing/black hole fully augmented). It was a mess and we ended up wiping.

One of them, I think the sniper, after throwing a fit in ops chat, made a vote to kick. The vote didn't pass but it was close. Both those dps left the group and so did the tank. Can't blame her/him tbh. It was a very unpleasant situation.

And before the group disbanded, some said "he should do flashpoints to gear up a bit before doing ops"

 

the hms have become a race with a bh carrot at the end with people doing some of the dumbest things trying to skip 20 secs of combat.

 

yeah, and when those things don't work for some reason, you waste a lot more time, like in B. of Ilum. Getting past the whole first section very close to the snow can go wrong very easily.

Edited September 10, 2012 by wainot-keel

After having done the same FP like a trillion times, I understand why many people want to skip as many fights as they don't need to do.

 

At this point and time, you've been level 50 since the dawn of time and nothing in these FP is really needed by anyone in the group, not for them, anyway. So why waste time fighting unnecessary fights? Unless, you're a new 50 and you indicate you need the loot, then maybe the group does them.

 

But for all you old 50's, it's a waste of time. The only thing most players want is to go in, quickly knockout the FP and get the Black Hole comms.

 

That's it.

Edited September 11, 2012 by RikHar

since i started doing fp to pass the boredom i notice most ppl will stop and kill a boss if asked.

 

 

I don't get a choice.

 

 

you always have a choice.

Well, thing is, the GF tool is for everybody. Old and new 50s, old and new players.

Here, some have said, "hey, you want gear, join an active guild and gear up with ops".

That same argument goes for an "old" 50. You want quick runs with overgeared burnt out people ? Join an active guild and queue up the premade that suits you better.

ok i don't want to sound like an *** but here it goes......... You can get better gear from BH comms therefore the tionese X that drops from the bonus boss is NOT worth it... Furthermore you can keep queuing for random FPs to farm tionese comms/crystals to purchase the would be item.

 

Yes, I play as a tank and I realize that many people want to do the bonus boss. I am fully augmented campaign tank I do this for the comms and people tend to wipe on bonus boss because they fail on the mechanic. I do FPs for the creds along with dailies and selling biometric alloys on the gtn.

 

If you want to fully clear the FP or watch the cutscenes that is seen hundreds of times roll a tank or go solo in normal. Tanks leave the group because repairs ARE NOT CHEAP, you might not notice this as dps/heals since you guys don't constantly get hit.

 

Lastly, it's and MMO meaning if your doing HM and in a group the majority rules.

 

I hope it didn't sound too harsh but its the truth. If you really want to see pain roll a tank and you'll see what I'm talking about in a few weeks, it's not pretty. All in all its important to have fun, but at the same time not waste another person or groups time.

 

You can get better gear from BH comms therefore the tionese X that drops from the bonus boss is NOT worth it... Furthermore you can keep queuing for random FPs to farm tionese comms/crystals to purchase the would be item.

 

The flashpoints rewards have been buffed in every sense, to appeal everybody in different ways. Social points, daily comms, more gear, tionese crystals/comms, biometric alloys, bh comms. The group finder is a convenience for everybody not just you who only wants the alloy and bh comms.

 

 

Lastly, it's and MMO meaning if your doing HM and in a group the majority rules.

 

Not at the expense of someone else's right. If someone wants to play the content of the flashpoint, they have the right to do so.

Besides, is not always the sacrosanct "majority". Sometimes is just one. As a tank, you may have heard that you could have your way regardless of everything, taking avdantage of the fact that you ragequitting might mean a rather long wait for the rest of the group.

The flashpoints rewards have been buffed in every sense, to appeal everybody in different ways. Social points, daily comms, more gear, tionese crystals/comms, biometric alloys, bh comms. The group finder is a convenience for everybody not just you who only wants the alloy and bh comms.

 

 

 

 

Not at the expense of someone else's right. If someone wants to play the content of the flashpoint, they have the right to do so.

Besides, is not always the sacrosanct "majority". Sometimes is just one. As a tank, you may have heard that you could have your way regardless of everything, taking avdantage of the fact that you ragequitting might mean a rather long wait for the rest of the group.

 

So, your telling me that IF I use the GF I have to entertain all of their needs? Ok I got it. And you wonder why tanks are rare in queue....