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lowbie healing questions


Daxy's Avatar


Daxy
09.09.2012 , 10:28 AM | #1
i am a level 36 sith sorc specced in the corruption tree (with the five points in lightening for the extra force)

i have only done two flashpoints (cademinu) and both times have felt very helter skelter
-------
i have healed in mmo's before so i'm not a total noob but i an totally unfamiliar with the new flashpoints so i figure i just go with the flow and deal....

the problem both times is every other member of the group runs in a different direction and aggros a different set of mobs - i am essentially healing 3 "tanks" simultaneously; both supposed/marked tanks have never pulled aggro for me and most group members seem oblivious how they are staying alive - when i eventually draw the ire of all involved said mobs i end up spending the rest of the pull healing myself hardcore while trying to dish out an occasional shield and resurgence

i almost feel we would do better if i let khem tank (at least khem keeps aggro on himself and off me) and i heal him the whole time and let the dps do what they must

is this common for you veteran swtor healers out there?
is it common for the groups not to know their roles?

just looking for some tips for getting through the growing pains
thanks

theStirge's Avatar


theStirge
09.09.2012 , 10:51 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Daxy View Post
i am a level 36 sith sorc specced in the corruption tree (with the five points in lightening for the extra force)

i have only done two flashpoints (cademinu) and both times have felt very helter skelter
-------
i have healed in mmo's before so i'm not a total noob but i an totally unfamiliar with the new flashpoints so i figure i just go with the flow and deal....

the problem both times is every other member of the group runs in a different direction and aggros a different set of mobs - i am essentially healing 3 "tanks" simultaneously; both supposed/marked tanks have never pulled aggro for me and most group members seem oblivious how they are staying alive - when i eventually draw the ire of all involved said mobs i end up spending the rest of the pull healing myself hardcore while trying to dish out an occasional shield and resurgence

i almost feel we would do better if i let khem tank (at least khem keeps aggro on himself and off me) and i heal him the whole time and let the dps do what they must

is this common for you veteran swtor healers out there?
is it common for the groups not to know their roles?

just looking for some tips for getting through the growing pains
thanks
If the dps are running off aggroing different groups than what the tank is fighting, let them die. Seriously, just stop healing them. They're stupid and don't deserve to live. Explain to them that they need to follow the tank or they are not going to get healed. Now, if they're fighting the weaker mobs in the same group the tank is fighting, that's what they're supposed to be doing. Tanks and dps should only be hitting the same mobs near the end of the groups. When the dps follow their kill priority properly, healing aggro becomes much less of an issue, because the tank will have aggro on the stronger mobs and the dps will have aggro on(or just have outright killed) the weaker mobs. You do have a bit of personal responsibility in not pulling aggro: You should have a talent that reduces your heal aggro, and at some point you should get an aggro dump ability, although of course that one only works if anyone else has aggro on whatever is shooting you. Also, if you pull aggro, run toward the tank. No matter how stupid they are, they usually use some sort of AoE ability which can grab melee mobs off you, even if they didn't mean to, and it's just possible that they will see the ranged mobs shooting you and take steps. If they don't, and you die anyway, point out to them that it's kind of hard to heal them while you're dead.

Just remember: You are the healer, and you do, in fact, get to decide who lives and who dies.
The n'Sappho Legacy, The Harbinger
Zel'eena, 55 Combat Sentinel
Eleeta, 55 Medic Operative; Fer'eerra, 55 Lightning Sorcerer
All Chiss, all the time, all day, forever.

ChrisRedmond's Avatar


ChrisRedmond
09.09.2012 , 10:53 AM | #3
Sounds like your DPS are pulling aggro rather than let the tank do it. In my opinion, heal the tank, let the DPS die and they learn real quick.

They might be DPS, but they're not all stupid

EDIT: The previous line cracks me up
If you can't fix it, forget it.

Banegio's Avatar


Banegio
09.09.2012 , 07:20 PM | #4
Most of the time communication will solve the issue. This game attracts a few new players to mmo.

Generally the dps should just follow the simple kill order: weak mobs -> silver -> gold etc...

The tank will take the initial aggro of the pack and use whatever abilities he see fit to hold the aggro of the silvers and gold. Of course the tank should try to hold the weak mobs as well, but that may not be possible in some large pack pull if not cc. So it is not unusual for the tank and dps to target different weak mobs; the weaks should die fairly quickly without doing much damage.

If the dps target the silver before killing the weaks, then this is obviously a problem. This also tends to result the weaks being loose and harrass the healer. The tank or healer at this time can just remind the dps to kill the weak mobs first.

There are also some pull of, say, 4 silvers or 3 golds. Someone (usually the tank) marking the kill order will make things easier.

metalfenix's Avatar


metalfenix
09.10.2012 , 12:51 AM | #5
OP, your priority should be the tank, and secondly you, after that the dps. Of course I know how you feel because I like to have everyone over 80% of their health always (sometimes forgetting my own health bar lol). But as others pointed, many times dps have to run opposite sides because they have to get the weaker mobs. Normally, you should not have problems healing the dps unless the tank lose the aggro on the strong ones and they begin attacking you or the dps (or if the dps attack the wrong mobs).

The only time I got really bothered is when everyone gets out of my range, or when I have to chase one, just to lose the range of another (happens me a lot in the HK fight of the foundry. It's a really frustrating)
Koltowolf'Raf Commando Healer / Raf'HiredHealer Mercenary Healer
Rafa-el Scoundrel Healer
Server: The Harbinger

DracJedi's Avatar


DracJedi
09.10.2012 , 10:59 AM | #6
DPS has two jobs in the fight (1) kill from weak to strong and (2) pick up any of the mob that the healer happens to pull (if the tank can't). They should never initiate combat with any non-agroed group (i.e. any cc'd or other groups). Communication usually resolves this issue.

Gronkaarr's Avatar


Gronkaarr
09.10.2012 , 11:17 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Daxy View Post
i am a level 36 sith sorc specced in the corruption tree (with the five points in lightening for the extra force)

i have only done two flashpoints (cademinu) and both times have felt very helter skelter
-------
i have healed in mmo's before so i'm not a total noob but i an totally unfamiliar with the new flashpoints so i figure i just go with the flow and deal....

the problem both times is every other member of the group runs in a different direction and aggros a different set of mobs - i am essentially healing 3 "tanks" simultaneously; both supposed/marked tanks have never pulled aggro for me and most group members seem oblivious how they are staying alive - when i eventually draw the ire of all involved said mobs i end up spending the rest of the pull healing myself hardcore while trying to dish out an occasional shield and resurgence

i almost feel we would do better if i let khem tank (at least khem keeps aggro on himself and off me) and i heal him the whole time and let the dps do what they must

is this common for you veteran swtor healers out there?
is it common for the groups not to know their roles?

just looking for some tips for getting through the growing pains
thanks
get your groups to communicate more. if you're in a guild, maybe invite them to get on your guild's vent channel. but at least use the group chat to agree on what you're going to do in terms of using cc or who is picking up adds, who is going to break cc, etc. in experienced groups, it's more intuitive and people know what should be done without having to talk about all the details. but in groups where people are likely running flashpoints for the first time, make sure they understand the general strategy of how your group of 4 players is going to take on something like a pack of 5 mobs that includes 2 golds. then when you know what works for trash pulls of certain composition, you can speed things up by saying, ok same strat as last time, cc the left gold, tank is on right gold, dps picks up adds, etc. communication is the key though

psandak's Avatar


psandak
09.11.2012 , 03:59 PM | #8
While all of the above is true, there is something else to consider - tanking trash (and bosses with adds) in SWTOR is very different than in other games. Tanks do not have lots of AOE taunting and even the single target taunts have a significant CD. Further, with the majority of mobs doing range damage (blasters), it is all but impossible to cluster all the mobs so that the tank can hold agro on everything.

So, the job of the tank is to agro the biggest baddest mob in the bunch and hold that agro. If s/he can pop his AOE taunt/high threat abilities great. The rest of the mobs are generally weak enough that the DPSers can "tank" them and not die so long as the healer heals them a little. In fact, the DPSers all going different ways is probably preventing the healer from pulling agro.

If you have a lot of CC or a good group leader (whichever role they are filling), focus fire is possible, but this is the exception not the rule.

DracJedi's Avatar


DracJedi
09.12.2012 , 02:42 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
While all of the above is true, there is something else to consider - tanking trash (and bosses with adds) in SWTOR is very different than in other games. Tanks do not have lots of AOE taunting and even the single target taunts have a significant CD. Further, with the majority of mobs doing range damage (blasters), it is all but impossible to cluster all the mobs so that the tank can hold agro on everything.

So, the job of the tank is to agro the biggest baddest mob in the bunch and hold that agro. If s/he can pop his AOE taunt/high threat abilities great. The rest of the mobs are generally weak enough that the DPSers can "tank" them and not die so long as the healer heals them a little. In fact, the DPSers all going different ways is probably preventing the healer from pulling agro.

If you have a lot of CC or a good group leader (whichever role they are filling), focus fire is possible, but this is the exception not the rule.
I think the issue that the op was stating was that the dps was pulling different mobs. I agree that a dps could and should "tank" a few members of an already agroed mob on a fp, but they shouldn't be agroing a different mob. The tank has to pick the mob and then agro them. The dps then pick a weak member or two of the mob and AOE them or just individually dps them down. DPS pulling non-agroed mobs is a recipe for disaster.

Rizogue's Avatar


Rizogue
09.16.2012 , 04:28 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Daxy View Post
*snip*
the problem both times is every other member of the group runs in a different direction and aggros a different set of mobs - i am essentially healing 3 "tanks" simultaneously;
Actually, it sounds like the problem the OP is referring to is that these DPS are picking up whole different groups of mobs that are not yet aggro to the group at all. I have seen this kind of uncoordinated approach myself in some early FP, where each member still looks at it like the solo missions they are used to, where they are used to taking a group of three or four trash mobs by themselves, not realizing their tank is across the room holding some elite hoping for their dps help to take it down together before dashing off for their own solo glory. As others have mentioned, this is a communication issue, and should be addressed at the start of the FP, so everyone knows their roles, and can achieve them together. Group leaders need to take charge, target mobs, and set priorities from the start.