Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The trash skipping is staggering.


Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
09.08.2012 , 03:50 PM | #11
I think its just strange world design. I mean on Skyrim I dont moan that I can get round some mobs, but they have good field of view, come to the sound of battle and sneaking is part of the game. With TOR it just seems like the allow us to sneak round mobs but only because they have a 45 agro zone, go into it and they attack, sneak round at 46 meters and your safe. Bad design and silly loot tables mean skipping them is easier than fighting them and fighting them is not worth the time.

Durasturan's Avatar


Durasturan
09.08.2012 , 04:45 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Izorii View Post
I think its just strange world design. I mean on Skyrim I dont moan that I can get round some mobs, but they have good field of view, come to the sound of battle and sneaking is part of the game. With TOR it just seems like the allow us to sneak round mobs but only because they have a 45 agro zone, go into it and they attack, sneak round at 46 meters and your safe. Bad design and silly loot tables mean skipping them is easier than fighting them and fighting them is not worth the time.
This. I think this is important from a design perspective as well. If FP or ops trash had a statistically significant chance to drop half way decent items or tokens or high end crafting mats or SOMETHING it would be worth it to farm them. You would see people actually going in and doing FULL CLEARS. But the mobs are completely worthless, they don't drop ANYTHING useful. That was one that's really irked me about this game.

In a lot of other RPGs and MMOs random world mobs have a good chance to drop really useful things and mats (by really good chance I mean not virtually 0) and so you could just go out into the world and fight and kill and farm and it was fun. In SWTOR you can farm elites, sort of, but the reward really isn't THAT good and you don't have a chance at really cool stuff.

If I farm for 2 hours, just pull and kill and pull and kill I'd like it to be a comparable reward to if I spent two hours in some other aspect of the game, like PVP or FP or whatever. I'd like to see bigger daily quests that are more akin to "kill 200 x" and it changes everyday or there are multiples. Sometimes I just want to run around exploring and killing, not be bound to an instance or some small fragmented zone you have to take a spexcial speeder just to get to.

You want to get people off of Fleet? Make exploring and killing mobs worth it. If you had a daily quest that was "kill 200 jawas" or "kill 200 wampas" or sandpeople or whatever, it would get people out into the world, add A LITTLE variety (if they rotated) and encourage more open world PVP as well.

scullzomben's Avatar


scullzomben
09.08.2012 , 06:46 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Lexlo View Post
Eh, I'm not against it if people are just running FPs for quick commendations.


It bothers me when people skip mobs, beat the flashpoint and complain about lack of content.
Trash in FP's and Ops =/= content.

MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
09.08.2012 , 06:51 PM | #14
I'm fine with skipping trash but I dislike how it has become the norm to skip the bonus bosses .

Shuno's Avatar


Shuno
09.08.2012 , 07:03 PM | #15
Kill 'em all!

SWG Euro Farstar
----------

Rafaman's Avatar


Rafaman
09.08.2012 , 07:10 PM | #16
I leave it up to the tank. I don't get bothered by it either way.

However, I do think that making everything a speed run takes away from the overall experience especially with new players trying to get their bearings. I prefer to do all the bonus bosses because they have good loot and I don't mind grinding a little to keep my skills sharp.

What I don't like is skipping mini bosses. Trash you can keep, but mini bosses should be unskipable.

Costello's Avatar


Costello
09.08.2012 , 07:10 PM | #17
I find the option to do this very strange and can't honestly see it as by design.

Flashpoints should be about a certain level of game play and jumping round mobs just to kill the bosses removes this, though it is easier and far quicker and I completely understand why people do it.

I would prefer to see an option that makes playing the full flashpoint carefully and without a wipe rewarding, at the moment wipes mean nothing, dying means nothing and avoiding trash mobs is far quicker than killing them. There is no reward and anyone that has been through a few times would rather save the time. Sadly this can make for a very grindy event and not so much fun, but thats the current design.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
09.08.2012 , 07:21 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Costello View Post
I find the option to do this very strange and can't honestly see it as by design.
Thing is though, if they did not do it this way, giving the players the option, then the QQ in forum would be deafening from the fast food crowd. There is no way for Bioware to win on this.

Quote: Originally Posted by Costello View Post
I I would prefer to see an option that makes playing the full flashpoint carefully and without a wipe rewarding, at the moment wipes mean nothing, dying means nothing and avoiding trash mobs is far quicker than killing them. There is no reward and anyone that has been through a few times would rather save the time. Sadly this can make for a very grindy event and not so much fun, but thats the current design.
I think all they have to do is put a loot bonus on the encounter, where if you kill everything in the encounter, you get a lootable chest/locker at the end of the encounter. That way most of the go-go-go crowd would stop and take the time to kill everything, because above all else, they will always be loot fiends. Unfortunately, they are still going to hound and prod the poor tank to "go Faster NAO!!!"
Judgments are often inaccurate because the brain relies on cognitive biases over hard evidence. Cognitive bias is the tendency to make irrational judgments in consistent patterns. Researchers have found that cognitive bias wreaks havoc by forcing people to make poor, irrational judgments.

Ster-Ling's Avatar


Ster-Ling
09.08.2012 , 07:25 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by scullzomben View Post
Trash in FP's and Ops =/= content.
I don't think anybody is arguing that trash = content. It's the FPs and Ops that are the content. But if you blow through a FP in 10 minutes of play instead of 30, you consume the content much faster.

Personally I think the very small agro radius is the problem. It was bigger in beta. Then around the time of stress testing (those big weekend beta events) open-world areas reached critical masses of players where there just weren't enough mobs. So they increased spawn density and respawn rates. Then afterward, when the number of players returned to normal, there were too many mobs in certain areas and walking into a camp would pull something like 15 mobs onto you at once, so they reduced the agro radius to compensate.

However, the spawn density in flashpoints remained unchanged, so a lot of areas which were intended as chokepoints that players would have to fight through became skippable.

I've always preferred to go after objectives with a minimum of fighting trash mobs. Always, and still do. But when it becomes possible to skip boss fights and trivialize content to such an extent that you spend more time getting groups together for runs than running the content, it has swung too far away from gameplay and too far into metagame.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
09.08.2012 , 07:33 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ster-Ling View Post
I don't think anybody is arguing that trash = content. It's the FPs and Ops that are the content. But if you blow through a FP in 10 minutes of play instead of 30, you consume the content much faster.
Exactly this.
Judgments are often inaccurate because the brain relies on cognitive biases over hard evidence. Cognitive bias is the tendency to make irrational judgments in consistent patterns. Researchers have found that cognitive bias wreaks havoc by forcing people to make poor, irrational judgments.