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Darth Caedus vs Yoda


Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.08.2012 , 09:17 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by BradTheImpaler View Post
Precognition did not help Yoda detect Sidious' true nature until it was too late. Same could be said for Caedus.
Now, assuming Yoda already knew Jacen Solo's true nature as Darth Caedus, it still doesn't help.

As Darth Traya once said, "There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense". Jacen/Caedus taught this technique to Ben, who taught it to Luke. Luke used the same technique to sneak up on Caedus and Caedus had no clue what was coming. So it doesn't matter how strong Yoda's precognition is if there's nothing in the Force to warn him.

I'm not saying Caedus would win, but you don't quite understand what I mean by Caedus masking his presence. Nobody could sense him when he didn't want to be sensed, and even though he knew the technique it didn't stop Luke from using it against him.

FYI, Yes I have seen the wiki entry. I included info from Yoda's entry in my post above.
You are correct that Yoda could not detect Sidious. And I do not blame him for it. Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever and his ability to cloud the senses of the Jedi order is legendary. Caedus does have abilities to mask his presence, but I was merely speaking from a combat perspective. I doubt Caedus could pull the same trick on Yoda as he did on Mara Jade.
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

BradTheImpaler's Avatar


BradTheImpaler
09.08.2012 , 01:35 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You are correct that Yoda could not detect Sidious. And I do not blame him for it. Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever and his ability to cloud the senses of the Jedi order is legendary. Caedus does have abilities to mask his presence, but I was merely speaking from a combat perspective. I doubt Caedus could pull the same trick on Yoda as he did on Mara Jade.
I don't blame Yoda either. That's what I'm saying. Caedus would probably not stab Yoda's leg with a poison dart, but even in combat, he could certainly surprise Yoda, because Yoda couldn't sense his real intentions in the Force. As I said, precognition doesn't help if there's nothing in the Force to sense. Luke used the same technique to sneak up right behind Caedus and attack. Again this does not guarantee he'd win, but it is an edge that he and anyone he's taught this technique has.

Even in a purely combat perspective, Yoda is no idiot but neither were Jedi that Caedus managed to trick. Yoda can be caught off guard, too. He can deflect lightning, but he let his guard down for a moment against Sidious and was blasted against the wall. So, caught off guard, Yoda can take a lot of damage, just as any Jedi would.
In the Imperial Army, it takes more courage to retreat than to advance.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.08.2012 , 02:20 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by BradTheImpaler View Post
I don't blame Yoda either. That's what I'm saying. Caedus would probably not stab Yoda's leg with a poison dart, but even in combat, he could certainly surprise Yoda, because Yoda couldn't sense his real intentions in the Force. As I said, precognition doesn't help if there's nothing in the Force to sense. Luke used the same technique to sneak up right behind Caedus and attack. Again this does not guarantee he'd win, but it is an edge that he and anyone he's taught this technique has.

Even in a purely combat perspective, Yoda is no idiot but neither were Jedi that Caedus managed to trick. Yoda can be caught off guard, too. He can deflect lightning, but he let his guard down for a moment against Sidious and was blasted against the wall. So, caught off guard, Yoda can take a lot of damage, just as any Jedi would.
This is true. I think, if anything, Yoda has far more experience with the Force than Caedus does. Which could give him an edge in the middle of the fight.
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
09.08.2012 , 02:56 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This is true. I think, if anything, Yoda has far more experience with the Force than Caedus does. Which could give him an edge in the middle of the fight.
Going against Luke Skywalker and the NJO and Yuuzan Vhong gives Caedus allot of experience with the Force.

Especially Oneness..
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.08.2012 , 03:02 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Going against Luke Skywalker and the NJO and Yuuzan Vhong gives Caedus allot of experience with the Force.

Especially Oneness..
I was thinking about that Oneness thing. It seems like a once in a lifetime thing because I don't recall him ever doing that again.

By experience I meant like overall mastery of the Force and it's application in all aspects of life.

In all fairness. This is a bit of a mismatch. I think anyone who has dueled Grand Master Skywalker should only be pit against someone from their timeline. I think a better match-up would be Caedus versus someone like Darth Krayt.
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
09.08.2012 , 03:13 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Yup, he was doing everything but actually getting physically involved and he actually distracted Caedus with his presence and kept caedus from finding Jaina, who would have definitely been killed otherwise.

Now I will note, all of these things didn't happen in one duel, it was more like a prolonged on and off duel that took place all over Caedus' SSD, IIRC.
No, the first fight between Jaina and Jacen (I hate the name Caedus, I refuse to call him that.) took place on a large asteroid mining facility or something. The fight on the Anakin Solo (Jacen's ISD, it wasn't a SSD.) took place deep inside the ship in the incerator room where Jacen was disposing of Prince Isolder's body. That fight was brutal and the winner was in doubt until he sensed that Tenel Ka and Allana were in danger. That caused him to try and plea for Jaina to let him go help them, to which Jaina basically said "hell no!". Jacen may have won if not for Jaina slicing through his achilles tendon, preventing him from even standing again. At that point he used the Force to warn Tenel ka before Jaina finished him.

As for Jacen and Yoda...at what age would Yoda be? Yoda could win unless the fight was drawn out. His age would begin to show, giving Jacen the advantage. Also, Flow-walking would not help Jacen, so having that power means nothing in a fight.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
09.08.2012 , 04:01 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
No, the first fight between Jaina and Jacen (I hate the name Caedus, I refuse to call him that.) took place on a large asteroid mining facility or something. The fight on the Anakin Solo (Jacen's ISD, it wasn't a SSD.) took place deep inside the ship in the incerator room where Jacen was disposing of Prince Isolder's body. That fight was brutal and the winner was in doubt until he sensed that Tenel Ka and Allana were in danger. That caused him to try and plea for Jaina to let him go help them, to which Jaina basically said "hell no!". Jacen may have won if not for Jaina slicing through his achilles tendon, preventing him from even standing again. At that point he used the Force to warn Tenel ka before Jaina finished him.

As for Jacen and Yoda...at what age would Yoda be? Yoda could win unless the fight was drawn out. His age would begin to show, giving Jacen the advantage. Also, Flow-walking would not help Jacen, so having that power means nothing in a fight.
Age means nothing.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
09.08.2012 , 04:19 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Well, I think Yoda has a higher knowledge of the Force than Caedus does. I rank Yoda as the wisest Jedi ever. So I think he wins in a battle of Force powers, but it would be close. As for Lightsaber skills. I'm not sure. Yoda demonstrated his skills by fightning Dooku to a standstill and surviving a fight with Sidious so he has the skill. I'm not entirely sure about Caedus, though.

I think Yoda would pull through in the end.
Yoda is indeed one of the top Jedi ever, if not the top Jedi;but if you recall he could only fight Sidious to a draw and knew he would lose eventually. I guess it would all depend on how you think Caedus and Sidious match up.

It's a tough call, but I give it to Caedus.
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
09.08.2012 , 04:35 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
Yoda is indeed one of the top Jedi ever, if not the top Jedi;but if you recall he could only fight Sidious to a draw and knew he would lose eventually. I guess it would all depend on how you think Caedus and Sidious match up.

It's a tough call, but I give it to Caedus.
he lost to Sidious not a draw
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

BradTheImpaler's Avatar


BradTheImpaler
09.08.2012 , 05:33 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
he lost to Sidious not a draw
He obviously meant draw in the sense that both survived, which makes sense. If Sidious didn't have legions of clones running to back him up, then who knows?
In the Imperial Army, it takes more courage to retreat than to advance.