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LI hm changes?


lazyax's Avatar


lazyax
09.08.2012 , 07:47 PM | #11
while we are on the topic of LI hm, can someone explain exactly how the lightning balls/drops work? from what i understand (from tank POV), it tends to drop on the second person on aggro list, which typically would be a dps or healer. This is why the method of tank being in the middle, ranged dps and healer on the outside seems to work so well, because the bubble tends to never drop in the middle, on the tank. When doing this with melee dps though, the tank has pretty much no choice but to do the other method which is drag the droid in a circular pattern around the room, basically pulling the droid away from the bubble drops, herein lies the issue: the droid stops occasionally and wont move, no matter how much the tank taunts the droid, he will not move until he finishes his "thing", which seems like it takes about 5 or 10 seconds (after taunting). I have probably done this instance a bunch of times, but only successfully completed it maybe 5 times from start to finish. I know how to do this with ranged dps, but how does this work exactly, with melee? it just seems a lot harder with melee dps. due to the urgency of interrupting incinerate, like another poster stated, a bubble tends to drop between the tank and the droid when doing it that way, which then makes it much harder to interrupt.

I have also run this with players that seem to understand exactly how the bubble drops work, and use that to our advantage. For example, since we know that it tends to drop on second person on aggro list, or not on tank, the dps will stand in a open spot that isnt in the "path" of tank dragging the droid, and the bubble will then drop there, and all subsequent bubbles are dropped in a perfect line away from the group behind the foward path of the tank and droid. I have only seen this a couple times and wondered how they were able to do that. It made things a lot easier for the melee method. If i understand how that works better, i could explain that to the LI hm group better. Im guessing that this works because the dps/healer should be standing behind the droid anyways, and thus the bubbles drop behind the droid? is that how that works?

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
09.09.2012 , 10:00 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by lazyax View Post
while we are on the topic of LI hm, can someone explain exactly how the lightning balls/drops work? from what i understand (from tank POV), it tends to drop on the second person on aggro list, which typically would be a dps or healer. This is why the method of tank being in the middle, ranged dps and healer on the outside seems to work so well, because the bubble tends to never drop in the middle, on the tank. When doing this with melee dps though, the tank has pretty much no choice but to do the other method which is drag the droid in a circular pattern around the room, basically pulling the droid away from the bubble drops, herein lies the issue: the droid stops occasionally and wont move, no matter how much the tank taunts the droid, he will not move until he finishes his "thing", which seems like it takes about 5 or 10 seconds (after taunting). I have probably done this instance a bunch of times, but only successfully completed it maybe 5 times from start to finish. I know how to do this with ranged dps, but how does this work exactly, with melee? it just seems a lot harder with melee dps. due to the urgency of interrupting incinerate, like another poster stated, a bubble tends to drop between the tank and the droid when doing it that way, which then makes it much harder to interrupt.

I have also run this with players that seem to understand exactly how the bubble drops work, and use that to our advantage. For example, since we know that it tends to drop on second person on aggro list, or not on tank, the dps will stand in a open spot that isnt in the "path" of tank dragging the droid, and the bubble will then drop there, and all subsequent bubbles are dropped in a perfect line away from the group behind the foward path of the tank and droid. I have only seen this a couple times and wondered how they were able to do that. It made things a lot easier for the melee method. If i understand how that works better, i could explain that to the LI hm group better. Im guessing that this works because the dps/healer should be standing behind the droid anyways, and thus the bubbles drop behind the droid? is that how that works?
I heal LI with two melee dps friends and this is how we do it:

1. Tank in middle
2. Healer on outside
3. Melee wait next to healer while tank starts fight.
4. As soon as the first bubble drops on healer, melee force leap in
5. Healer steps to the left, still at range.
6. The balls drop every 15-20 seconds or so.
7. So when it's just about off cd, melee runs out to healer, it drops, they force leap back in.
8. Healer steps to the left as they drop.

The reason we don't like kiting LR-5 around the room is to make the tank's job simple. Keep aggro, interrupt incinerate, face him away from group.

Hope this helps.

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
09.09.2012 , 02:50 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by lazyax View Post
while we are on the topic of LI hm, can someone explain exactly how the lightning balls/drops work? from what i understand (from tank POV), it tends to drop on the second person on aggro list, which typically would be a dps or healer.
They drop at random on anyone but the player with aggro (typically the tank).

haliy's Avatar


haliy
09.10.2012 , 08:01 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
They drop at random on anyone but the player with aggro (typically the tank).
Incorrect. I tanked it yesterday and i had 2 drop at my location with the other players in the group being RDPS and the healer and nobody else had aggro except for myself the entire time except during experimental cannon. However, during the first drop, I was in one of the corners of the center and I moved myself to the edge of the corner totally opposite of the center box. It looked as if i was out of range of the lightning and luckily at this time, I was now on the side of the box my group was heading to so i was not out of range of the healer.

Coming from experience, the tank needs to pay attention to 2 things primarily (incinerate casts and lightning drops) and the 3rd thing preferably (Add spawns). The group itself should move together completely around the room not too quick or you will be moving right into one of the lightning balls.

Have the Healer and DPS stack on top of eachother directly behind him. This will make for a much easer run rather than having everyone run around like chickens with their heads cut off and possibly running out of range of the healer.

1) (Healer specific) It allows the Healer to make use of their AOE heals
2) (Healer specific) it guarentees the healer to not be out of range of other players which need healing.
3) (Tank specific) it allows the tank to see when the lightning will be dropping so they know when to move
4) (Tank specific) it allows for the tank to make use of the AOE taunt for the adds
5) (DPS specific) it allows for the DPS to make use of their AOE ability when the adds spawn - SEE point #4
6) (Group specific) it allows everyone to be in range to intrupt Incinerate incase 1 of the other members misses the cast.

If you have a totally ranged group, you can take the chance with keeping him in the middle of the room since he will drop the lightning on you but at least your chances are with you with only a 25% chance of getting hit with it. In this case, keep an eye on where your group is so you can position yourself with the corner of the room your group is in. If you don't there will be a chance that you might make yourself out of range of the healer.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kabolt View Post
I think there is a problem with it, I have tanked it many times, both with ranged and full melee with out to much trouble.

But tonight with full melee it was insane, boss was not moving to follow the tank, he would drop plasma every 5 seconds often on the tank, placing the plasma between himself and the tank which also raises the problem of interrupting the incinerate which can't be done unless the tank is in range.

I have done LI every week and I was never this difficult before. I wouldn't be so bad if the boss would move with the tank, but he keeps stopping to do his thing.

Timers are messed up imo.
You have to remember, he will completely stop when he casts experimental cannon so if you are in the middle of moving to your new location in order to avoid the lightning and he starts to cast this, he wont move. The best thing you can do in this case is to move out of LOS of him so he does not hit you with incinerate from a distance while everyone is out of range to interrupt.
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
09.10.2012 , 08:34 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by haliy View Post
Incorrect. I tanked it yesterday and i had 2 drop at my location with the other players in the group being RDPS and the healer and nobody else had aggro except for myself the entire time except during experimental cannon. However, during the first drop, I was in one of the corners of the center and I moved myself to the edge of the corner totally opposite of the center box. It looked as if i was out of range of the lightning and luckily at this time, I was now on the side of the box my group was heading to so i was not out of range of the healer.

...
Perhaps one of the other players pulled aggro and you weren't at the top of the threat list?

I've never seen the energy coils drop on the tank with two ranged dps. Ever. In many many runs.

So either this is a very rare occurrence or you lost aggro.

haliy's Avatar


haliy
09.10.2012 , 10:24 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Perhaps one of the other players pulled aggro and you weren't at the top of the threat list?

I've never seen the energy coils drop on the tank with two ranged dps. Ever. In many many runs.

So either this is a very rare occurrence or you lost aggro.
I always keep an eye on my Target of Target window just to make sure i have aggro 100% of the time. The time when I got hit with it, I was the focus.
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Mordeguy's Avatar


Mordeguy
09.11.2012 , 04:44 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by haliy View Post
I always keep an eye on my Target of Target window just to make sure i have aggro 100% of the time. The time when I got hit with it, I was the focus.
This has been happening recently to me, but I stress recently. I have been tanking it since it was released a few times a week for guildies and the lightning simply does not drop on me when I'm tanking. The last few times however, it's been happening. Months worth of LI HM runs and I haven't seen it until the last couple weeks. I definitely am not losing aggro, this is either bugged or newly added. Unless I'm just that lucky, but I doubt it.

haliy's Avatar


haliy
09.11.2012 , 04:57 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Mordeguy View Post
This has been happening recently to me, but I stress recently. I have been tanking it since it was released a few times a week for guildies and the lightning simply does not drop on me when I'm tanking. The last few times however, it's been happening. Months worth of LI HM runs and I haven't seen it until the last couple weeks. I definitely am not losing aggro, this is either bugged or newly added. Unless I'm just that lucky, but I doubt it.
Exactly 100% agree. Before last week, I have never seen it drop on myself once and now just recently in 1 run, I get hit with it twice. Something defiantly changed with the way it spawns on the group and I would love to see a dev's response to it because this was something that was not put in ANY of the patch notes. Still easily able to handle but would have like some warning in advance so i knew what to expect for the future.
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Kabolt's Avatar


Kabolt
09.11.2012 , 05:58 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by haliy View Post
You have to remember, he will completely stop when he casts experimental cannon so if you are in the middle of moving to your new location in order to avoid the lightning and he starts to cast this, he wont move. The best thing you can do in this case is to move out of LOS of him so he does not hit you with incinerate from a distance while everyone is out of range to interrupt.
Yes this is correct, I have probably done LI about 25+ times, with about 4 fails that I can think off.
But before I go any further, we done it again on Sunday night and it was back to normal.

When I originally posted here, it was straight after our failure to pass the droid boss, our melee group did try for about 2 hours, which was a hard pill to swallow since we came straight from completing the NP on Voss.

Our problem was mostly the speed at which the droid cycled his attacks on us, the cycle was every 5 or so seconds. It was never that fast before, usually about 10-20 seconds per cycle.
As soon as I taunted him from the middle, he casts incinerate "which is normal".
I moved him 3 meters from the middle, he drops a blue ark on the healer.
Before I can move him to the console corner, he stops at the pillar and enters his experimental cannon stage.
However before he finishes it, he drops two more blue arks on both Sentinels, one straight after the other.
I move him towards the door, and the second I stopped, he drops a blue ark on me, so I start to move him again to the next corner but he stops inside the ark and casts Exp cannon.
By the time I moved him to the next corner, we had another three arks drop on us.

We tried a few different solutions to solve the problem, but later came to the conclusion that the timers where messed up, it was just insane, our friendly droid was on steroids.

Also that was the one and only occasion that we have seen it that fast. Thankfully he's back to normal now

haliy's Avatar


haliy
09.11.2012 , 06:35 AM | #20
Sorry Kabolt, i guess i could have been a little more specific on who i was directing comments to with that post. I kinda figured you had done it multiple times from what you were saying in your post. The only flag that I saw was when you said he wasn't moving which is where my comment to you came from. I just wasn't sure if when you were trying to move him was at the same time he was casting experimental cannon. The rest of what you said I felt that there was nothing you could have done due to the nature of the timers being off.

The rest of my post was directed to those who have had troubles with him in the past and my methods on tanking/positioning with the added w.t.f. factor of lightning being dropped on the tank in general in the recent runs compared to it never being dropped on the tank in the past.

Now when you say "its back to normal" does this include the lightning no longer being dropped on the tank or is this still the case
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