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Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

FourTwent's Avatar


FourTwent
09.05.2012 , 12:03 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by aVmuse View Post
Oh nooo, you're going to have to aim your knockback.
This is how I feel.

Knockbacks were a little 'derp' if you asked me. Sure even in Huttball you kinda had to position yourself. But more often than not you just gotta pop your KB and everyone is gone.

This change will make it more about skill.

- Not only will the person with the knockback have to position himself before he can successfully knock everyone off
- But if an attacker can manage to stay behind him/to the side, then he wont be effected by the knockback

I also think this will make scoring in huttball a lot harder. . .but that's probably balanced out by the change to stuns. Having a KB with a 15m directional 'cone' to knock someone off the goal line 'ledge' is going to be super easy to do. Of course this is assuming that your team is not dumb enough to white bar him(which lets face it, happens WAY too often in pugs lol)

MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
09.05.2012 , 12:15 AM | #22
The only complaint I've ever read on the topic of overload/FW is that it's not pushing melee classes far enough, they're basically still in range unless you've specced electric bindings and run like hell. Not once have I seen some other class complain about being on the other end of it. Not once was it mentioned as being in need of a change in the sorc/sage feedback threads. At the same time they're totally ignoring the things that EVERY, with no exceptions, PvP dps was complaining about in the feedback threads, the lack of burst in relation to the survivability.

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
09.05.2012 , 12:30 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
This is how I feel.

Knockbacks were a little 'derp' if you asked me. Sure even in Huttball you kinda had to position yourself. But more often than not you just gotta pop your KB and everyone is gone.

This change will make it more about skill.

- Not only will the person with the knockback have to position himself before he can successfully knock everyone off
- But if an attacker can manage to stay behind him/to the side, then he wont be effected by the knockback

I also think this will make scoring in huttball a lot harder. . .but that's probably balanced out by the change to stuns. Having a KB with a 15m directional 'cone' to knock someone off the goal line 'ledge' is going to be super easy to do. Of course this is assuming that your team is not dumb enough to white bar him(which lets face it, happens WAY too often in pugs lol)
The knock back from force wave to clear off the platforms in huttball is just one of the uses for force wave. The problem with it now being changed to a frontal cone is that its now a huge nerf to it being employed defensively to get melee attackers off you and is now so easily countered. Consulars also need to clear attackers from behind them not just infront of them. On top of this lag spikes and server-client desyncs will make force wave simply miss.

Smart melee classes already wait for Consulars to hit their force wave before they use their gap closers. Now, they don't need to. All they need to do is make sure they come from either the side or from behind. So its a case of other classes using less skill against Consulars.

An instant cast may make it more predictable, but functionally removing 2/3s of the defense from force wave for light armour class is really a nerf that is uncalled for.

Kuvox's Avatar


Kuvox
09.05.2012 , 12:31 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
This change will make it more about skill.

- Not only will the person with the knockback have to position himself before he can successfully knock everyone off
- But if an attacker can manage to stay behind him/to the side, then he wont be effected by the knockback.
Hmmmm....this proposed change to overload/force wave may be about skill for some Sorcs/Sages but it will, in my opinion, impact healers more than DPS Sorcs/Sages. See, our knockback is an EXTREMELY important part of our defensive abilities when healing given that we usually have to contend with 2 to 4 enemies on us on an almost constant basis. DPS Sorcs/Sages usually have no more than 1 or 2 enemies on them, if even that. As such, positioning for the 120-degree knockback won't be as difficult for them as it will be for healers as some enemies will almost certainly not be knocked back no matter how much 'skill' positioning we do. With timed and staggered stuns preventing us from using the new heal and the new changes to force speed, this change will be problematic for healers.

MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
09.05.2012 , 12:37 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Kuvox View Post
DPS Sorcs/Sages usually have no more than 1 or 2 enemies on them,
We're on the same page but I don't know about this statement. It seems like all other classes think that no one is stupid enough to bring a dps sorc/sage into a WZ so they just assume that dps'es are healers too and attack us in hordes.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
09.05.2012 , 12:49 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Kuvox View Post
Hmmmm....this proposed change to overload/force wave may be about skill for some Sorcs/Sages but it will, in my opinion, impact healers more than DPS Sorcs/Sages. See, our knockback is an EXTREMELY important part of our defensive abilities when healing given that we usually have to contend with 2 to 4 enemies on us on an almost constant basis. DPS Sorcs/Sages usually have no more than 1 or 2 enemies on them, if even that. As such, positioning for the 120-degree knockback won't be as difficult for them as it will be for healers as some enemies will almost certainly not be knocked back no matter how much 'skill' positioning we do. With timed and staggered stuns preventing us from using the new heal and the new changes to force speed, this change will be problematic for healers.
Yeah, if huttball was the only wz, this wouldn't be an issue. The issue is that this was a range-creator against classes with leaps. Run/jump/spin/cast/spinback/land/"continue running in same dir" isn't an option in getting overload to connect after leaps that root the caster. Before, you could just overload/root/strafe/attack. They've basically overload into a multitarget force push, which isn't something sorcs and sages really needed.

Tankqull's Avatar


Tankqull
09.05.2012 , 01:13 AM | #27
shoud be changed for sages/sorcs to be a 120 cone with the target enemy as the centre of that cone without any need of facing to that paticular direction. so running away from someone will knock him even further away, when hes on the side of the sage it will be a cone in a right-angle to the walking direction etc. if no/frindly target is choosen it will be a normal frontal cone. that way it would keep its defensive value without changing the intention of BW.

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
09.05.2012 , 01:27 AM | #28
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=352
Quote:
-Force wave change from 360 animation lag KB to 120 degree kb: honestly, this sucks, why limit it at all? Nobody complains, its a moderate kb at best, and trust me, I fully intend to hit everyone in that 360 radius.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...4&postcount=10
Quote:
The major problem I have with the change is ;
Most of the enemies I wish to hit with this skill will be behind me. I can hook jump turn cast when not stunned but I would prefer the cone to be behind me....

but much like other skills changed to suit metrics, some will take it off the skill bar entirely, some will use it and some will leave the game shaking their heads in disbelief.

For me I will try it out. I would advise the balance team to play the game alongside actual players a few hours and ask their opinions though.

I would also like to see ALL Aoes changed to 120 degrees frontal as well and check to see if the same posters jump in saying " good move increases skill factor".

Ssfbistimg's Avatar


Ssfbistimg
09.05.2012 , 01:29 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
This is how I feel.

Knockbacks were a little 'derp' if you asked me. Sure even in Huttball you kinda had to position yourself. But more often than not you just gotta pop your KB and everyone is gone.

This change will make it more about skill.

- Not only will the person with the knockback have to position himself before he can successfully knock everyone off
- But if an attacker can manage to stay behind him/to the side, then he wont be effected by the knockback

I also think this will make scoring in huttball a lot harder. . .but that's probably balanced out by the change to stuns. Having a KB with a 15m directional 'cone' to knock someone off the goal line 'ledge' is going to be super easy to do. Of course this is assuming that your team is not dumb enough to white bar him(which lets face it, happens WAY too often in pugs lol)
and this would be fine if all knockbacks got this change. But only sorcerer/sages did. Troopers/Bounty Hunters is still the same and I believe Snipers didnt change either. But at least they made it instant so no more wasting a cooldown on it just to be sent flying backwards cause of the animation delay

pierrelacombe's Avatar


pierrelacombe
09.05.2012 , 01:34 AM | #30
your not helping me comming back to the game the more you nerf char the less you have a chanc to see me come back