Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
09.04.2012 , 08:55 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
Instant knockback more than makes up for it.
A delayed ability that definitely hits being changed to an instant cast that hits 1/3 is not a balancing, its a nerf.

Yeochins's Avatar


Yeochins
09.04.2012 , 09:54 PM | #12
Huge nerf. Most people who support the change don't realize they only get their knockback off because its 360 degrees. Bad net-code and lag places people on your screen where they aren't server side. You think your knocking him back but he's really behind you so your knockback does nothing.

Its the same bug where you think you stunned/rooted your target in the fire pit. But because of server lag he's actually 1 step safely past the fire-pit. Until Bioware fixes their bad net-code/lag this change is a huge nerf to an already dismal class.

Hairyzac's Avatar


Hairyzac
09.04.2012 , 10:07 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by leto_cleon View Post
A delayed ability that definitely hits being changed to an instant cast that hits 1/3 is not a balancing, its a nerf.
Yup. Plus, I actually quite enjoyed the fact you got to see your sorcerer leap into the air and then smash the ground. When you smash the ground, everyone around you gets knocked back. It just makes sense and on top of that, a 360 degree knock back is a needed ability since we have absolutely no defensive cool down. Sure sometimes someone would hit their knock back right before mine and it wouldn't function properly but that was very rare.

Also you cannot balance a class against Huttball, which is what it appears they are doing in this situation. This is fundamentally flawed. BW certainly doesn't balance warriors/knights around Huttball or they wouldn't be leaping everywhere being immune to all CC and throwing people off scaffolds.

Zhaker's Avatar


Zhaker
09.04.2012 , 10:15 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by leto_cleon View Post
Enter the forum trolls. :sigh: Get a life already seriously

The change to Force Wave affects Shadows as well and Force Speed reserved for a force cloak escape. Without force speed, a Shadow is just opening himself to a placed AoE to break him out of stealth.

And it really isn't about aiming. A 120 degree knockback cone is so easily countered.
So is the 360 KB. All you have to do is primarly stand on the center of the sorc/sage and watch your kb do nothing because it'd just merely launch the player upwards rather than away from you. Which results in the sage/sorc STILL in trouble.

And with the old change you think the Warrior/Knights cant reach you, you are too naive.

Leiralei's Avatar


Leiralei
09.04.2012 , 10:33 PM | #15
The comments about client-server lag have convinced me that this cone change is too drastic. Bioware, please keep the knockback as is for sages, even when it gets annoying it made sense. A cone ability doesn't really make as much sense.
:: लीर :: Commando :: Sage :: Scoundrel :: Guardian :: Powertech :: Assassin :: Operative :: Jugg :: Bioware Fangirl since NWN... RIP Bioware
Did they take out insurance on this game? I love it but its so weird.

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
09.04.2012 , 10:33 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Zhaker View Post
So is the 360 KB. All you have to do is primarly stand on the center of the sorc/sage and watch your kb do nothing because it'd just merely launch the player upwards rather than away from you. Which results in the sage/sorc STILL in trouble.
And on top of that all 2-3 melee classes need to do is make sure that they come to consulars at >120 degree away from each other. The Consular is pretty dead.

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
09.04.2012 , 10:40 PM | #17
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...78&postcount=7
Quote:
This is more commonly used by Sages to get those NPC's "off you BACK" not the ones in front of you per sei.

Hell, in pvp, this is used by sages to get Operatives off from CC'ing from behind until you die.

Now? Nerfed.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...1&postcount=12
Quote:
Doesn't even address the major issue in PvP. Thats Operative stealthing, throwing stunlock CC forever, taking off most of the persons health, if not all.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...3&postcount=14
Quote:
As bad as server synching is in this game, force wave will be wasted countless times. You may see someone in front of you ready to be knocked back, but because of how bad synching is, they might be behind you. As well as people circling to stay behind you, you will have almost no chance to hit them in that 120 degree arc. Again, mainly due to the poor server synching.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...7&postcount=26 and http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...3&postcount=27
Quote:
Assassins and Sorcerers are getting nerfed as well. Overload has saved my Assassin more times than I can count because it not only hits those in front of me but also THOSE ENEMIES BEHIND ME! which has been a life saver when solo against a group of targets, and now Overload will only work in front of me? That is not a good idea from where I am standing.

Elkirin's Avatar


Elkirin
09.04.2012 , 11:01 PM | #18
I am happy enough to test it before making full comment but I am also aware that I mostly use overload on my sorc for enemies behind me. My assassin uses it as an offensive move more often.

Maybe a 120 degree cone, behind the player would be better, ........ with an appropriate sound effect.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
09.04.2012 , 11:08 PM | #19
Most of the time it'll be fine and I think the buffs still outweigh this but the people complaining about server lag are correct. I haven't played an mmo in years that is as bad. I also play other mmos so I know it is only SWTOR and my computer is way too nice for mmo's so that is not it.

However, having said that I spend most of my time on other classes and I will enjoy that part. And sorcs that are worried...as long as the heal is decent then the buffs to sorc will actually be pretty nice.

These changes worry me though. What was needed was a buff to LIGHTNING spec ST dmg burst. Also merc arsenal spec needs a buff. I have a vguard (yes it is op but woohooo!) and I don't want to play vguard light.

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
09.04.2012 , 11:26 PM | #20
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...5&postcount=46
Quote:
Almost full War Hero Sorc heals here. I'm pretty expert at staying alive by kiting (as good as one can be against melee types that have lots of gap closers), and I have to warn you that the changes to Overload and Electrocute are going to significantly reduce survivability for Sorcs/Sages.

Overlord is a "skunk's tail"-like defensive cooldown in kiting: I turn my butt toward the enemy, knockback, and then create separation by moving away, usually in search of a LOS breaking obstacles. With the new ability, I'll have to face my foe and then trigger Overload and then turn around and then run away. That's hard to do in practice because lag prevents quick movements like that. Another use of Overload was to knockback an enemy while standing at a corner of LOS and then going around that corner. Not possible with your new cone effect. Adept close-range fighters are already skilled in moving through you, making it difficult to use forward-facing effects on them consistently (particularly with a narrow aperture cone at very close range, I imagine). So this is a major nerf to an ability that, talented with Electric Bindings, was one of our few escape mechanisms. We're already very squishy, and melees already have lots of gap closers. Why you want to reduce survivability is beyond me. I've heard lots of complaints, but "sorcs always get away" was not one of them.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...6&postcount=57
Quote:
If you accidently get knocked into fire or off a bridge cause of overload it is your own fault. You have to aware of the classes and space around you. A number of important strategies are going to be ruined because of this. As a assassin tank you can no longer use overload in order to get enemies off of your allies particularly in cases like huttball. Also it is effectively worthless as an aoe for stopping node caps in denova or alderran when multiple people are capping at once
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...0&postcount=64
Quote:
I like the removal of the animation delay from Overload. I don't like the fact that I have to be facing my opponents to use it since it is primarily used while trying to flee. Looks like I'm going to have to start practicing my WoW Hunter technique of jump>spin>shoot again.

Also, with the way the client/server lag works in this game I'm positive that most of my overloads are going to be wasted on enemies that aren't really in front of me.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...5&postcount=66
Quote:
Yeah also this. I can't heal myself break cc, try and cc, try and run away, try and aim my face towards the guy to push him away so I can turn back around and run away all at the same time. I see myself on my pyro circle strafing around these squishies and blasting them non-stop while they try and aim their face at me which they will probably miss and achieve nothing and if they do hit me and push me away by the time they turn around to run away ill be out of knockback and orientate my screen on them and then hookshot them right back.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...0&postcount=71
Quote:
Agreed on all points. I already find turning around can cause lag spikes that leave me disorriented from the unexpected facing that results. Imagine trying to hit some guy trying to run behind you and through you....

The animation delay is welcome.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=100
Quote:
Healers are already too squishy in PvP and now you nerfed their survivability even further by turning Overload and Force Wave into cones. Really?
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=101
Quote:
What!? Go find me a sorc or sage that didn't intend to hit all nearby targets with those abilities? So now when i am trying to heal and I've got 3 ppl running around me attacking, i will have to be facing them to hit them? And what about in PVE i won't be able to run in the middle of a mob and knock them all flying? Idk, this seems stupid to me. I've never complained about being knocked back by that ability, that's what it does.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=103 and http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=108
Quote:
So let me get this straight. The sage/sorc's main way to create separation with melee is Force wave/Overload. The main time we used it was when running away from someone. This change makes us need to face the target. This means we have to stop running or hope that we can hunter jump/turn/cast/re-turn. Thanks BW, but no thanks. Give us back our 360 pushback. Yes the fact that it is now instant is great, but the fact that I won't be able to use it defensively is utterly incomprehensible.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=105
Quote:
I play both a sage and a sorcerer. You just really hurt the class by making overload/force wave have a 120 angle arc. That makes it useless as a defense when you are trying to get someone who is hitting you from behind.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=159
Quote:
Of all my time playing this game not once have I seen someone complaning about knockbacks as they are now. If anything I see people complaning about how many stuns there are more often than not.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=176
Quote:
I don't think I could have said it better. It's great that a sorc will now be able to knock everything away in front...but what about the guys attacking from behind. That whole 120 degree cone isn't going to do crap to help a sorc stay alive in pvp.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=203
Quote:
BioWare should have left the Overload skill alone it was fine the way it was. This skill allowed my Assassin to knock away any enemies from me even those that were attacking me from behind, and now it only targets those enemies in front of you that really puts PvE only players like me in a real bind when attacked by a large group of enemies when solo.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=212
Quote:
I agree I loved that Force Wave/Overload nailed all opponents in a 360 arc around you. It came in handy when solo and surrounded by enemies. ... And having a knockback skill that only targets those in front of you and not all the way around you can make a fight where you are attacked from the front and the rear at the sametime which almost all melee classes are when solo can make the fight much harder than it needs to be.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=223
Quote:
Overload was probably the only thing keeping Sorc's viable in huttball. Being able to protect themselves and keep people off their ledges. So now we have to try and run to the side of someone while turning into them and then hitting overload. In that amount of time everyone else just hits their knockback and we are gone. The knockback radius on Overload is to short to knock people on angles.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=297
Quote:
-strongly- disagree with a nerf or ANY change to Overload/Force Wave because of the above listed reasons. Which also applies to assassins/shadows. 19/20 fights that you need to get away from, overload is the difference between making a clean get away, or getting killed, and by now, we're all just too used to playing it a certain way and being able to rely on it. I can go on, and on, and on, but I think I've made my point, and I'm sure others who have more time to think more deeply on the mater will make a stronger case than I can int he time I have.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=310
Quote:
360-degree overload is crucial to getting away from people. A decent melee player can just run through you and keep hitting you from behind or side, so when I go to overload, oh well, he wasn't in the 120-degree arc, so I wasted it, and now i have to wait the GCD to do something else.