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Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.05.2012 , 02:07 PM | #101
Edit... I could care less. I do very well and enjoy the class as is. I welcome the positive changes.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
09.05.2012 , 02:16 PM | #102
Edit... I'm over it... Enjoy the QQ party.

Sock_Bramson's Avatar


Sock_Bramson
09.05.2012 , 02:20 PM | #103
I was a bit leery of this change at first, but now I'm not too worried about it. Sure, it'll take a bit to get used to the cone aoe, but once you do you'll be able to work wonders.

2 big pluses:
1) The ability is instant, which will help alot on the latency front. Also, no more hitting overload when another character hits their instant knockback, getting knocked back and uselessly slamming the ground at your new location.

2) The increase in range to 15m is downright juicy. Yes, the current form of overload is a nice "oh crap" button, but the new form sounds like it'll be a much more effective kiting tool. If I understand it correctly, you'll be able to knock people back the same distance when they're still fairly far away from you. Add in the potential root from electric bindings and quicker access to force speed (especially if you can still talent it) and you're gonna be able to keep people from getting too close to you.

edit: while these changes certainly help healer/lightning spec more (hooray for me and my healing/lit. hybrid!), I don't think they're going to hurt madness as much as people think. A longer range knockback + creeping terror should be a potent combo, and the benefits of gaining a free, instant heal and more force speeding should not be ignored. As far as the shorter range on electrocute goes, sure, I'll miss it. However, I don't think it's a class-breaking change by any means. Most of my kiting comes from my slow, knockback+aoe, and sprint. I find that the stun is usually better saved for stalling while your teammate caps or trapping a ball carrier in a hazard, though it's certainly helpful when the poop hits the fan. Used at the right time, those 4 seconds will be useful at any distance, especially with more force sprinting to be had.
-Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands-

Kegparty's Avatar


Kegparty
09.05.2012 , 02:30 PM | #104
edit--- I think I am just disappointed they didnt do anything to actually effect full lightning sorc spec. I always felt the top skill was pointless with a long cast time. Just disappointing so I am jaded in this discussion.

Sock_Bramson's Avatar


Sock_Bramson
09.05.2012 , 03:15 PM | #105
Actually, keg, these changes could potentially make lightning viable for once. You'll get(possibly, depending on what they do with the talent trees) force speed every 10 seconds, interrupt immunity, a 3 second aoe hard stun, a longer range knockback, and a free, instant heal. Used correctly, these changes might just allow you to shock the hell out of people. From what I've heard, lightning dps in pve is in a good place at the moment; the main issue in pvp has been lack of mobility, i.e. you can't survive long enough to dish out any damage. Quickly re positioning every 10 seconds alone might just fix things, but we'll have to see.

Also, I've heard some interesting theories on how to optimize your stats as a lit. sorc. I don't really know all the specifics, but you may be able to get more damage by sacrificing crit for power. (since TB is an insta-crit if you have affliction up) Like I said, we're just gonna have to wait and see how all of this shakes out.
-Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands-

Nocadoj's Avatar


Nocadoj
09.05.2012 , 03:29 PM | #106
Obviously people have not realized that Bioware has no idea about PvP balance. We are better off speccing our Sorcs/Sages to heals, making them our alts, and rolling PT/Mara/Sniper.

The main complaint in the Class Feedback was survivability, but they nerf our Overload/Wave. If you can't accept the fact that Bioware hasn't a clue about this AC, then good luck to you. I will be rerolling PT and shelving my Sorc as an alt/daily cred toon until Patch 1.7 when they finally realize that this class needs more attention.
Joda

DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
09.05.2012 , 03:31 PM | #107
Somebody else already re-posted my feedback from another thread here (thanks for that) but I want to re-iterate my feedback on the changes to Overload:

The proposed change will increase the utility of Overload as an offensive tool because of the instant cast time and the longer knockback distance but it will decrease it as a defensive tool because so often Overload is used to knock back to the rear and side. While ostensibly one could turn to aim the cone, in practice this means turning toward your opponent when you are trying to create separation and because of lag that occurs when rapidly changing facing. I don't think this basic point -- that offensive utility will go up but defensive utility will go down -- is up for much debate among those who play the class as their main.

I've never heard "sorcs always get away" as a complaint on these forums. If any thing, the complaint is that sorcs lack survivability. So I am not sure why the defensive utility of one of abilities is being reduced. Electrocute also lost some of its defensive utility because you can't use it to anticipate the leap; now you have to wait to get jumped and use it in almost melee range ... and some classes have CC immunity after leaps so that's a further diminished of defensive utility.

Incidentally, while sorcs trying to survive may not be able to use Overload as a dependable defensive ability any more, I don't think this will lead to less knockbacks and roots. On the contrary, once Sorcs get used to using this offensively, it's increased KB range and instant cast will actually mean more knockbacks/roots in an offensive contexts. Right now, Overload has such a limited range that you can drop it and miss lots of people. As modified, it will have a bigger impact on clustered foes... and no less of a root if talented.
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
They mark me with the lightning bolt in Huttball.

Sock_Bramson's Avatar


Sock_Bramson
09.05.2012 , 03:42 PM | #108
If you can get used to jump turning, I think Overload can still be very effective defensively. You can't jump turn with it now because the delay would cause you to travel in the air in the opposite direction. As an instant ability, though, it won't have this problem. If you don't like jump turning (even though it's a useful skill for other situations), you can always try to fake them out: act like you're running around a pillar, about face, run past, and turn around and blast them as they take the extra second to react.

As far as offensive/defensive uses go, it may prove to be a better defense precisely because you can use it more proactively. Plus, you can also use it more offensively to boot.

Really, the sorc changes have only 2 nerf-ish aspects: 1) cone KB, 2) shorter range stun. I've already said I don't think 2) is gonna be as bad as people think with all the positive changes, and the downside of 1) is offset by the increased range on Overload. Meanwhile, the buffs we are getting are gonna be pretty damn awesome. Speaking from my post-1.2 respecing experience alone, having force speed every 20 seconds by itself is downright Om Nom.
-Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands-

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
09.05.2012 , 03:50 PM | #109
Probably the biggest prob imo (playing mostly melee classes right now) is with lag and without collision detection in the game then I will find it pretty easy to dodge the sorcs knockback by doing ahole cheap things (running through them). I think running through a player is wrong, however to be competitive I do it anyway lol. They should keep their knockback. Maybe just increase the cd or something. Since they are getting a quicker sprint then increasing the cd of knockback would make the most sense.

Also buff st burst on the lightning spec so I can not be extremely bored and play my sorc again. I just get bored playing easymode instant ranged classes. The skill (when pugging) of a ranged class is mostly positioning. With instants this isn't really that big of a deal. Some skill is also found in targeting and timing big hit abilities but with an instant dot class this isn't needed either. BUFF LIGHTNING.

DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
09.05.2012 , 03:51 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Sock_Bramson View Post
If you can get used to jump turning, I think Overload can still be very effective defensively. You can't jump turn with it now because the delay would cause you to travel in the air in the opposite direction. As an instant ability, though, it won't have this problem. If you don't like jump turning (even though it's a useful skill for other situations), you can always try to fake them out: act like you're running around a pillar, about face, run past, and turn around and blast them as they take the extra second to react.
There is no jump turning in this game. You change direction when you turn around in mid air. Try it. It's one thing to turn around just to target an effect that auto-hits but requires forward-facing. That can be tricky. But turning around to target an aimed effect is another matter. In practice you're going to want to use force speed to setup the KB... but then you're not using FS to run away...

More importantly, lag does not permit a lot of precision in these scenarios. I lag out when I am looking back to the ball carrier and turn around to run up ahead. I wind up facing some unexpected direction. A lot of people report this.
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
They mark me with the lightning bolt in Huttball.