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1.4 Nerfing classes for PVP reasons, impacts PVE.../sigh

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
1.4 Nerfing classes for PVP reasons, impacts PVE.../sigh
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Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
09.05.2012 , 04:00 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Similarly, although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes.
Funny!

I get that neither you, nor anyone on the design team PvPs with a Gunnery Commando or Arsenal Mercenary, so are thus completely oblivious to just how badly these 'new tools' will be nerfing us, but here's the thing. Do what you want with the stun, I get it, another nerf... Because everyone thought gunnery commandos were overpowered or something (/sarcasm).

But stop trying to help us. The 'new tools' (ie ripping out our knockback and giving us, a ranged class, a melee root) are an even worse nerf.

Pretty please, with sugar on top. Stop.
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
09.05.2012 , 04:07 PM | #102
Well, look.

If they actually playtest these changes with the general populace (internal testing is notoriously off base in almost even change made or proposed since Beta, not sure where they get the testers from) on the PTS and the majority find the changes enjoyable then I will digress.

However, if the populace does not react well to the stealth and wave changes, as I expect they will, and they refuse to listen to the feedback and do it anyway (as they have done many MANY times since beta started) then it will simply be lip service we are being provided.

Try to remember something Bioware. Your players, I would expect, are not all hardcore "rotation" players, they tend to be more casual "enjoy the story and experience" players at present. Just my opinion mind you, perhaps your internal numbers say different. Fun factor in specials goes a long way to make some less desirable game features and problems tolerable. Changing those features for hardcore players will not bode well if the majority of your population is casual as I expect.

We shall see. Like I said, if people are ok with it then so be it. If not and that's ignored, it will be same as always. Lip service. Nothing more.

So far you guys track record for listening to feedback has not been exactly stellar.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
09.05.2012 , 04:22 PM | #103
Yeah, a big part of the problem is how these changes have been presented.

If they had initially said something along the lines of "we're going to try some changes, we'll roll them out to the PTS, let us know what you think and we'll tweak accordingly" there wouldnt be half the problem. I don't like the sound of the Gunnery Commando changes one little bit, but I can test and either change my mind or demonstrate why they fail - and know that someone is listening.

What we've had however, is a "here's what you're gonna get, and why" type deal, with absolutely no mention of testing, or a two way discussion. This ongoing failure to engage is a huge problem for BW.
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Glower's Avatar


Glower
09.05.2012 , 04:22 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes. From our internal playtesting and feedback, we're confident that the new experience is more fun. Ultimately, we want you guys to be able to tell us what is and isn't fun
Hey! Do u know - stuns never fun!
SWTOR goes F2P: http://i.imgur.com/1962X.jpg
A: "Theyĺd love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)

KurganNazzir's Avatar


KurganNazzir
09.05.2012 , 04:27 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Overload and Force Wave, for example, now reach 15 meters in front of you. This is almost twice the previous range. The extra reach is quite a bit of fun and quite useful all around.
I could be mistaken, but I don't think the range of the knockback was ever the problem. The problem for some was the timing of the knockback versus the animation. Frankly, with the range being extended, there doesn't seem any reason to change when the knockback occurs because people should still be in range of it. Plus, keeping the animation the same but changing when the knockback occurs sounds like it's going to look really strange, but we'd have to see it to know.

Also, not being able to knockback everyone surrounding you is the new issue this brings up, I sometimes need that 360 degree knockback to get a little breathing room (plus it's just massively fun). Yes, I know, I'm just one insignificant voice in a sea of voices and you have to try to make things enjoyable for all but from what I've been seeing posted, a several folks from all parts of the game don't want the cone, not just PvEers. Only time will tell how this change, if it goes Live, will really affect people but on 'paper', I don't like it.
Dark Eclipse
GAF

Tiberians's Avatar


Tiberians
09.05.2012 , 04:29 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Hessen View Post
Yes, that would be nice.

PvP is a bad focus for MMOs. PvE should be prioritised.
prft! PvE should not be proritised! There is a huge amount of PvE content in this game for people that like PvE. The only place that people regulary PvP in this game is Warzones. Open World PvP as it is, is none existant, and a joke. It would be a nice addition to this game if BW gave people an insentive to participate in Open World PvP.

Kyriosgundam's Avatar


Kyriosgundam
09.05.2012 , 04:29 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
There is nothing wrong with making class adjustments that improve PvP as long as they don't break PvE in the process.

So far, I see changes, but nothing that negatively impacts PvE (unless you simply don't like change, period).

Besides, maybe wait until the patch goes up for testing before QQ, IMO.
Then you were not paying attention, by redesigning Force Wave/Overload the way they did that screws Tanks like me over in PvE when fighting solo because I now cant hit enemies that are behind me with Overload/Force Wave (Inquisitor/Concular) which is what the skill was originally meant for: hitting enemies in a 360 arc NOT a 120 arc. This skill has saved me more times than I can count which allows me to either escape or at least gives me a chance to think of a way to win. I dont do PvP at all for the most part this change screws over PvE players like me in a very big way. I am not saying all the changes are bad its just that after almost a year they should have left the skills the way they were. I dont see why PvE players like me need to be shafted all because PvP players complained. To me a Story based MMO which BioWare keeps saying TOR is means more Priority to PvE not PvP. These changes are not a game breaker for me but it will make curtain PvE fights more difficult than they need to be.
"The Ability to speak does not make you intelligent"-Qui-Gon
"Much to learn you still have"-Yoda
"Impressive......Most Impressive"-Darth Vader
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"-Obi-Wan

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
09.05.2012 , 04:31 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Yeah, a big part of the problem is how these changes have been presented.

If they had initially said something along the lines of "we're going to try some changes, we'll roll them out to the PTS, let us know what you think and we'll tweak accordingly" there wouldnt be half the problem. I don't like the sound of the Gunnery Commando changes one little bit, but I can test and either change my mind or demonstrate why they fail - and know that someone is listening.

What we've had however, is a "here's what you're gonna get, and why" type deal, with absolutely no mention of testing, or a two way discussion. This ongoing failure to engage is a huge problem for BW.
This. We are very "behind-hurt" as a playerbase. We were "told" what we wanted in Beta and continued to be told that up until now. This update is no different, as it is presented in this way....

This is who I am and what I do.
Here are the changes.
These are the exact planned changes
This is why
We think they are good changes.

And that is how it goes.

The reason this is not the best way to go with this game is that most of those changes, that design direction IMO has spelled disaster for this game up to this point, for whatever reason. Its difficult for me to trust that Bioware and/or the "internal testers" have any clue as to whats good for the game or it's populace.

EvilCoatrack's Avatar


EvilCoatrack
09.05.2012 , 04:36 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by KurganNazzir View Post
Also, not being able to knockback everyone surrounding you is the new issue this brings up, I sometimes need that 360 degree knockback to get a little breathing room (plus it's just massively fun).
They compensated for this.

Quote:
Sorcerers and Sages:
  • Force Speed now has a 20-second cooldown (down from 30) for all Consulars and Inquisitors.
  • New Sorcerer/Sage ability, Unnatural Preservation/Force Mend: Heal yourself for a moderate amount. Only usable on yourself. Instant, costs no Force, 30-second cooldown. This ability is trainable at level 18.
  • Fadeout/Egress has been redesigned. Now causes Force Speed to remove all roots and snares and grant immunity to roots and snares for the duration.
  • Polarity Shift/Mental Alacrity now additionally grants immunity to interrupts for the duration. Improved visual FX to demonstrate this effect.
If you need to get distance, you can now pop Force Speed MUCH more often.

If you get hit, you get a free, instant self-heal.

Force Speed (that thing that you popped to get away), can now remove all roots/snares and make you immune to ensure that you DO get away.

You ALSO have a new interrupt immunity, which makes BEING in melee suck less even if you CAN'T get away.

You get ALL THAT and you can STILL get everyone off of you with a little footwork and the same knockback button you always used.

Skilled Sorcs/Sages are going to be BETTER than they were before. The only people that these changes hurt are those who stubbornly refuse to pick up their game.
Grumpy old Founder.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
09.05.2012 , 04:40 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
To be honest as a tank if i am in a group where people knocking back mobs i will ask them not to do so and then quit if they continue to do so. There is very little use to KBs in pve if you're playing with half decent people.

In PvP my carnage marauder looses more damage on his ravage from my team mates KBing my targets then i do from anything the enemy does....

So in the greater sense of things, it doesnt effect PvE much, and is useful in PvP.
Agree. These are not PvE CC, but stuns and knock-backs, which can only annoy a tank or are used when a dps pulls aggro (which he should not be doing anyway). All the usable CCs are still at range and still fully effective.
May the Schwartz be with you....