Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Group Finder NEEDS a fix - NOW


ConzarCR's Avatar


ConzarCR
09.10.2012 , 03:22 AM | #21
I was on my tank on Sat evening and spent 2 hours waiting for an Op group (I'd already done Karagga's Palace, so it had to be an EV group). I got one pop that someone dropped out of.

The problem is the massive number of dps that are queuing, and the fact that an 8man Op requires exactly the same ratio of players as a 4 man. If they changed the GF raid size to be 16, they would be taking proportionally more dps players out of the queue than the other roles, but unfortunately you can't do that, because the pool of players is too small without cross-server.

What they could do (realistically) is make it so that if you queue for an Op as a group (as in 2 or more players) you can switch between 8 and 16 player requested. This allows your 7 man quild run to pick up a tank who hasn't turned up, and do your regular run. If you queue solo, you have to queue for 16.
Also, put a punishing timeframe on groupfinder use if you drop out. 1 hour, stacking each time you drop out, with a stack dropping off once per day when the dailies reset.

TheMarmalade's Avatar


TheMarmalade
09.10.2012 , 12:40 PM | #22
I gotta say as someone who only plays tanks and healers this is funny. Couple things first there are two ways for BW to fix this either gives healers and tanks more daily rewards for FP's (which would be nice for healers cause doing planetary dailies as a healer is annoying) or make the FP's harder and add a dps.

The easy way for you to fix this is friend a tank or a healer and Que with them. Everytime I sign on I get bombarded with requests from dps to do FP's. Most of the time I don't mind some of the time I do and thats when I charge to group with you. Some dps find it worth the money some don't. Also guys who are.good at dps and watch and help the healer when adds come get preferential healing from me. If you think you are god and do whatever you please I let you die.

Another thing you dps may not know but in a hm FP tanks and healers tend to know each other due to lack of each and whisper to each other about their moronic dps. Not that there is anything you can do about that but if a healer or a tank tells you to stop doing something or to.do something do it. If you don't you will probably wind up on both of our ignore lists.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
09.10.2012 , 01:01 PM | #23
Over the last week I've waited 2-5 minutes as dps to get into a group. Usually it's more like a half hour though.

This is a difficult problem to solve....WoW tried solving it by adding special rewards to the tanks and healers to queue more often...it maybe helped a little, but it didn't fix it permanently. I think making Group Finder cross-realm would probably help a lot.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Flaminica's Avatar


Flaminica
09.10.2012 , 01:09 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by TheMarmalade View Post
I gotta say as someone who only plays tanks and healers this is funny. Couple things first there are two ways for BW to fix this either gives healers and tanks more daily rewards for FP's (which would be nice for healers cause doing planetary dailies as a healer is annoying).
Funny, my healing Op with Kaliyo solos dailies faster than any of my DPSers.

Quote:
The easy way for you to fix this is friend a tank or a healer and Que with them. Everytime I sign on I get bombarded with requests from dps to do FP's. Most of the time I don't mind some of the time I do and thats when I charge to group with you. Some dps find it worth the money some don't. Also guys who are.good at dps and watch and help the healer when adds come get preferential healing from me. If you think you are god and do whatever you please I let you die.
Wow, because one of the reasons I play healers is so I don't have to be saddled on a team with an arrogant healer with a God Complex. I heal everyone: good and bad, geared and ungeared, competent or not. You can be a drooling idiot and I'll keep healing you, because - oh yeah - it's MY JOB.

You charge people to team? If you "let them die" do they get their money back?

Quote:
Another thing you dps may not know but in a hm FP tanks and healers tend to know each other due to lack of each and whisper to each other about their moronic dps. Not that there is anything you can do about that but if a healer or a tank tells you to stop doing something or to.do something do it. If you don't you will probably wind up on both of our ignore lists.
Correction: YOU whisper tanks and healers about moronic DPS. Don't tar all of us with your brush. On the rare occasions I whisper anyone in an FP it's generally the DPS to warn them to be careful about a sub-par tank who can't hold aggro. My ignore list is mostly dominated by primadonna rage-quitting tanks. DPS won't make that list unless they grief or ninja.
Spearshakers
||

Flaminica's Avatar


Flaminica
09.10.2012 , 01:12 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
Over the last week I've waited 2-5 minutes as dps to get into a group. Usually it's more like a half hour though.

This is a difficult problem to solve....WoW tried solving it by adding special rewards to the tanks and healers to queue more often...it maybe helped a little, but it didn't fix it permanently. I think making Group Finder cross-realm would probably help a lot.
The groupfinder should have been cross-server from the start, but some of the leet-kiddies whined; mainly the ones who didn't want a groupfinder to begin with. I expect it will go quietly cross-server in another six months or so.
Spearshakers
||

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
09.10.2012 , 01:31 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Flaminica View Post
The groupfinder should have been cross-server from the start, but some of the leet-kiddies whined; mainly the ones who didn't want a groupfinder to begin with. I expect it will go quietly cross-server in another six months or so.
please no cross server, we want to ignore very bad (I don't mean gear) ppl after flashpoint so we don't have to see them ever again...
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

Codek's Avatar


Codek
09.10.2012 , 01:36 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Flaminica View Post
The groupfinder should have been cross-server from the start, but some of the leet-kiddies whined; mainly the ones who didn't want a groupfinder to begin with. I expect it will go quietly cross-server in another six months or so.
Or cross server was not implemented because there is no merit in that it will some how magically fix the imbalance between healer/tanks and DPS players. If anything, it has a high potential to just make it worse.
~Codek

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
09.10.2012 , 02:32 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Flaminica View Post
The groupfinder should have been cross-server from the start, but some of the leet-kiddies whined; mainly the ones who didn't want a groupfinder to begin with. I expect it will go quietly cross-server in another six months or so.
Here's what is illogical about this idea (and note that I have no philosophical objection to x-server, I just can't stand this particular argument in favor of it.)

1. Most every single server has an excess of dps'es and a lack of tanks/healers.
2. If you combine them all in one big queue,
3. The dpses are still going to have to wait,
4. As there STILL aren't enough tanks and healers in the big queue...

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
09.10.2012 , 02:32 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
Or cross server was not implemented because there is no merit in that it will some how magically fix the imbalance between healer/tanks and DPS players. If anything, it has a high potential to just make it worse.
it wouldn't address the population discrepancy between the roles, but no one who knew what they were talking about said that it would. Cross-server groupfinders have always been exclusively to increase populations of participants. It doesn't affect the ratios within the populations to any degree (so it's not going to make it easier to be a DPS), but what it does do is reduce the average wait time (largely by reducing queue times for tanks and healers since you're likely wait less time before a specific role queues up) and increase the likelihood of finding a group during off-hours and while leveling.

Population has a strong inverse correlation with average queue times (as populations increase, average queue times tend to decrease). The simplest way to increase population for any system (since getting more people to play the game is a *massively* complicated and expensive prospect that every MMO ever has constantly strived to stymy) is to merge server populations, whether through forced server merging (which has already been done, but can be disastrous if overdone which is why the devs stopped at 12 servers rather than fewer) or cross-server functionality (which allows individual distinct servers to exist while combining functionality for specific things). The only "problem" with cross-server functionality is derived from a desire to maintain a high level of distinctness between servers (so that each server has a "flavor" or community that develops) and accountability within the system (such as letting people know in general if someone is a ninja and/or someone not being able to get a group because he's on everyone's ignore list for being an expletive deleted).

The comparative assessment of the risks of these problems weighed against the benefits of larger populations varies with the individual looking at the system as a whole. In my experience, people don't community enforce like most developers assume players will. I can only conclude that the developers look at the forum posters to gauge player opinion even though the opinions of forum posters tend to be the most extreme viewpoints rather than the more moderate/lazy viewpoints of average players which is why the developers cite community enforcement of behavior as a reason for not having cross-server functionality even though almost no one actually does so, at least in my experience and observation. This is one of the reasons why I've always supported cross-server functionality for random grouping mechanisms: most people never see the other randoms they group with ever again so they don't care whether they're on their local server or not and most people that would be affected by community enforcement are unaffected thanks to general laziness. As such, a majority of players would only see the benefits of a larger population using the groupfinder. It's simply a vocal minority that would see any of the problems.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Codek's Avatar


Codek
09.10.2012 , 03:26 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Population has a strong inverse correlation with average queue times (as populations increase, average queue times tend to decrease).
This is a half truth, Once a population reaches the size where a line begins to form 100% of the time for queues, then the ratio of the roles played will dictate queue times. The concept that queue times decrease from high populations comes from the idea that the difference in the roles selected becomes smaller as more players exist. Similar to flipping a coin 10 times vs 10 millions times. The outcome can be 4:6 ratio where the second will look more like 49.99:50.01 ratio.

But the problem is that players are not selecting the roles randomly, in fact the majority just doesn't like to tank (and heal to a lesser degree). This makes the ratio between roles far less predictable and more likely out of balance no matter how many people are allowed to queue.

By adding more people, your simply adding people waiting in line ahead of you vs the needed role joining up. This can equally improve and make things worse.

The low pop servers will in fact receive huge gains but the larger populated servers will feel no difference in the end. BW most likely recognized this by looking at their internal data and comparing the server ratios on who plays what most often. Thus the best solution was to simply force low population servers into the larger ones allowing them the benefits without bringing in all the negative effects of the X-server system.
~Codek