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Voice overs potentially ToRs downfall?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Voice overs potentially ToRs downfall?

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
09.04.2012 , 07:55 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Nerfing knockback is not only a MAJOR nerf to solo players, it also restricts one of the few enjoyable limited physics abilities in the game.

Not only is that a huge mistake IMO, it's pretty foolish as well. Simply nerf its use in PVP. It is astounding that this team has not learned the most basic MMO design skills that have been in use for 5 years now.

Maybe they were unaware that you could nerf abilities in PVP only...and also in raids or group play.

Now that is assuming that there is not some unknown game mechanic prevents selective nerfs. I suppose thats possible, but pretty unlikely.
The PvE has been destroyed to promote pvp balance belief with the released 1.4 balance changes is still silly. Yet for some reason the myth is spreading like wildfire.

Yeah they'd probably be best off separating PvE and PvP skill effects. I don't think its as bad a nerf to solo leveling as you assert though. I usually solo level and what I mainly use that ability for is as an additional interrupt(on my sage). On classes with full interrupts I barely used it at all. If I'm not tanking my companion is tanking, so what do I need a pushback for?
Darasuum kote ner vode!
Darasuum kote Mando'ade!

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
09.04.2012 , 08:05 PM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
The PvE has been destroyed to promote pvp balance belief with the released 1.4 balance changes is still silly. Yet for some reason the myth is spreading like wildfire.

Yeah they'd probably be best off separating PvE and PvP skill effects. I don't think its as bad a nerf to solo leveling as you assert though. I usually solo level and what I mainly use that ability for is as an additional interrupt(on my sage). On classes with full interrupts I barely used it at all. If I'm not tanking my companion is tanking, so what do I need a pushback for?
I'm not aware of this myth you speak of. I am aware, however, that the limited physics in the game is a solo players favorite if you spend any time outside this forum. Knockback and knockoffs are listed in the top 5 reasons the game is fun to play solo wise...let's face it, its as close to force unleashed as any MMO is going to get.

Nerfing any fun solo mechanic for the sake of more hardcore players is NEVER a good idea no matter how you slice it. Other MMOs have learned this lesson the hard way and have corrected this thinking, others have found ways to design the game so changes to one playstyle does not effect the other. It's basic modern MMO design.

Were not talking about functionality here. Were talking about appeal. Something this game lacks a bit too much for a modern MMO.

Could it be a non-issue? Sure. But was a wise move to make a change that effects all play styles?

Never.

Insomnio's Avatar


Insomnio
09.04.2012 , 08:08 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackavaar View Post
Consider this. You are paying actors to do voice work for you. You know you will need these voices again later. Should you A) Just get the few hours of voice work you need now and worry about rehiring them again later, assuming that they aren't busy with something else then or perhaps even deceased. Or B) Get the actors to read enough lines to fill out content that you haven't even started on yet?

The correct business decision would be B, get as much voice work done as you can while you have the actor in your studio, and since that is what they said they did I will take them at their word.

BioWare may have made some mistakes in creating this game, but getting the voice work done was not one of them.

You are really optimistic and perhaps gullible about the games development.

Why do you think the developers have gone mostly silent about content and F2P issues? They are not sure of the future of the game. Most future content they had "planned" was probably cancelled, and what was already completed is to be parsed out into the "every 6 weeks" content.

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
09.04.2012 , 08:09 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
I'm not aware of this myth you speak of. I am aware, however, that the limited physics in the game is a solo players favorite if you spend any time outside this forum. Knockback and knockoffs are listed in the top 5 reasons the game is fun to play solo wise...let's face it, its as close to force unleashed as any MMO is going to get.

Nerfing any fun solo mechanic for the sake of more hardcore players is NEVER a good idea no matter how you slice it. Other MMOs have learned this lesson the hard way and have corrected this thinking, others have found ways to design the game so changes to one playstyle does not effect the other. It's basic modern MMO design.

Were not talking about functionality here. Were talking about appeal. Something this game lacks a bit too much for a modern MMO.

Could it be a non-issue? Sure. But was a wise move to make a change that effects all play styles?

Never.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=528763

Its already spread to in game discussion.

Again, I agree with your statement that the game should have separated pve/pvp effects for skills, so that they can be balanced separately. Your statements regarding what makes it good for solo, the appeal more than its actual usefulness are also reasonable. I still miss my pre 1.2 death from above. I always find myself wishing that it had its original radius when I fight trash.
Darasuum kote ner vode!
Darasuum kote Mando'ade!

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
09.04.2012 , 08:14 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=528763

Its already spread to in game discussion.

Again, I agree with your statement that the game should have separated pve/pvp effects for skills, so that they can be balanced separately. Your statements regarding what makes it good for solo, the appeal more than its actual usefulness are also reasonable. I still miss my pre 1.2 death from above. I always find myself wishing that it had its original radius when I fight trash.
...it is one mechanic, often overlooked in this game but in my opinion just as important...visual appeal and fun factor for specials. Since this is a Star Wars game the exceptions are higher in this respect. Its also one of the reason I thought nerfing health for mobs across the board but adding more mobs with less XP would have been better for solo play, as well as individual (companion less) buffs.

Skoobie's Avatar


Skoobie
09.04.2012 , 08:23 PM | #146
According to this old article, taken from an old developer's blog, VO's are mostly up to Lucas Arts:

"BioWare would be responsible for providing the reams and reams of scripts, as well as, managing the writing/VO production schedule. The LucasArts team would be responsible for finding the actors, recording and post processing the dialogue."

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/48...ic-Voice-Overs

EJedi's Avatar


EJedi
09.04.2012 , 08:28 PM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Soluss View Post
So where is all this new VO/cutscene content? I mean its easy to make so why are the new dailies terminal quests? Why is the new expansion comming without new class stories... even though there is a level cap increase?
Why haven't bugs been fixed that we reported back in July of 2011?

Don't ask me to explain why the Bioware TOR team has failed so miserably.

I'm just saying that any decent group of developers, who cared about the product, could use the tools to produce content in a timely manner if management allowed them to.
If you pick up a novel, and see pages 2-899 only as obstacles between pages 1 and 900, then it may just be that you don't like reading.

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
09.04.2012 , 08:38 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by EJedi View Post
Why haven't bugs been fixed that we reported back in July of 2011?

Don't ask me to explain why the Bioware TOR team has failed so miserably.

I'm just saying that any decent group of developers, who cared about the product, could use the tools to produce content in a timely manner if management allowed them to.


Well that obviously isnt the case is it?
James Ohlen: " For 2012 we really want players to feel like they're getting their money's worth. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."

Kashley's Avatar


Kashley
09.04.2012 , 08:48 PM | #149
Just my own two cents. BioWare shot themselves in the foot with VO. They placed all their bets on VO being the 'revolutionary' change to MMO's thinking it would keep players involved to the extent that they neglected staples most MMO players were used to.

Now, they need VO to keep whats left of the population engaged in the only good selling point of SWTOR; story. But because they failed on just about everything else they are not generating the sub revenue to develop it.

Its entirely hilarious.
Insert witty signature here.

aristein's Avatar


aristein
09.04.2012 , 10:08 PM | #150
I doubt that voice overs will be the real cause of swtor having trouble making as much money as they hoped. I believe it is very clear that BW were premium rpg makers, but absolutely new to making an mmo. So, they made a great online ARPG, but are still working on making a great MMO. That is to be expected for anyone that thinks about it as their first MMO attempt. But I don't think anyone did. The masses and game industry in general just saw the budget and big names and figured that it would come out a great MMO. But the MMO part was a learning process for Bioware, plain and simple. They made a great immersive rpg (the leveling, the world, the animations, the immersion, etc), but are still learning as a company how to make a great MMO.

When you look at all the problems, I think it can all be attributed to a company learning for the first time how to devolop all the MMO features, balancing, updates, etc that gamers expect from a grade A mmo today.

- They launched the game and quickly discovered lots of bugs and broken features (lack of MMO testing experience)
- They spent too much resources on story and figured they would have time to develop more endgame content as they went along (inexperience with how quickly players will chew through content, the need for replayable content, etc).
-They did a poor job managing expectations and promised too much saying things like "Bioware doesn't release games until they are done". But MMO's are never "done", they are all a work in progress....ever improving, ever expanding.

Bottomline: BW is learning how to make a great MMO by doing it.....and that is a process. And, having tons of investor's money (EA) invested in their project just makes this process much more difficult as investors will always demand a say when they have so much of their money at stake and end up sticking their ignorant fingers in the pie while it is being baked.
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson