This game could learn from SWG

how about neither... the metaphor I QUOTED was fine and didn't back-fire you simply seem to lack the comprehension to understand what was said and I still don't agree with you

seriously it's like you're having a second conversation with someone else and just posting it in replies to random posts in this thread

Quote: Originally Posted by Liquidacid

how about neither... the metaphor I QUOTED was fine and didn't back-fire and I still don't agree with you

seriously it's like you're having a second conversation with someone else and just posting it in replies to random posts in this thread

You don't have to agree with me to be wrong, it happens quite independantly.

are you having a stroke or something?

Pretty sure I'm not.

But lets just agree that SWTOR should have looked (and still should look) at the whole of the MMORPG wheel (including SWG) when looking for good ideas to include.

But facts might.

The population was actually growing before the CU/NGE. You can check the reported subs to see that. It's common knowledge. After the CU/NGE subs plummeted, and then continued to bleed until the game ended up with 10k or so subs when it was closed.

The intent of the NGE is speculative IMO. I personally think it was to try to garner subs of the likes of WoW. They in fact killed the game with the change.

BTW, I think the most sensible suggestion is to make our personal starships our housing, or to be more specific add SWG style decorating to our personal ships. They are already instanced, so that problem is solved. I dont think hooks like in LotRO is a good idea...a free form decoration system like SWG would be best IMO.

There is no such thing as an MMO that is 100% themepark or 100% sandbox. Most MMO's lean one way or the other, but all MMOs have both elements in them.

For example, SWG had endgame raids (Corvette, Death Watch Bunker), linear quest lines (Rebel and Empire Questlines).

SW:TOR already has sandbox elements: open world pvp is a sandbox mechanic!

So, saying that because SW:TOR is mostly themepark it should never, ever use any sandbox elements is silly. It doesn't fit ANY current development model and it also doesn't fit with common sense.

At the end of the day, the developers of any MMO simply want their subscribers to stay playing, and therefore paying, for the game. Themepark elements are easier to develop and easier to understand for the mass market, but they are also very short lived as players complete the content and get bored. Sandbox elements are much harder to develop and generally harder to understand, but ultimately have a much longer lifespan.

By focusing mostly on themepark elements, you place the burden of player retention purely on the developers ability to churn out content. For the developers to be able to do this, they need lots of developers and thus lots of money to fund it, so they basically need a lot of subscribers. As soon as sub numbers drop, that model is screwed.

By focusing on sandbox elements, you need some seriously intelligent developers at the start to get it right, but after launch the burden of player retention no longer lies with the developer, but with the community. The developers therefore have longer to develop content and thus lower running costs.


This is why the themepark subscription based model for MMOs is currently failing and more and more themeparks are going F2P. The market is saturated with very similar MMOs and thus none of them can build a player base high enough to fund continued development of content. Sandbox elements alleviate this problem: assuming they get the sandbox right (hard to do, admittedly), the community stays happier with the product for longer and so the burden on the devs is less. Player retention remains higher. Win Win

Many here on these forums would state that SWTOR really doesn't have OWPvP. And if that is SWTORs only "sand box" element then, SWTOR is a purist when it comes to Theme Park MMORPGs.

Actually subs could be said to be about stable in SWG, but not growing. By late 2004 they were steadily decreasing, and the game took a non stop nose dive from about half way through 2005. By the time CU was released the game was losing players steadily. By the time NGE was released, SWG had lost 1/3rd of its players in the same year.

Once again......No it cant without fundamentally altering the present game.


Non combatant classes, Owen centric loot, placing houses in game area, focus on RP mechanics etc etc .....you are off the deep end if you dont feel that is NGEing this game. Which makes those of you, that whine about the PRECioUs, hypocrits.


Changes to PVP and/or adding a deeper space game ala JTL.....Some of this might not be so bad. BW would need to keep the space tunnel shooter for those that enjoy it. Like I said prior, I have no opinion on the PVP portion.


So no....I dont agree with your assessment of being able to " take a lot" from SWG. The gameplay focus in both are totally different, and you dont bring one game into the other without NGEing it. SWG folks should know this better than anyone, and yet some of them wont shut up. Which in turn makes them hypocrits for wanting the fundamental play of this game changed.

Well, I never played SWG, but I must say, I adore the idea of making our ships into customisable homes. I'd pretty much line my Smuggler's ship's main room with book-film shelves, with more book films and possibly quite a few old print-books (they must have existed at *some* time in the Star Wars Universe, surely) scattered across various surfaces, along with "Family" photos to play up that angle of the relationship with her crew, a whole dynamic that's very clear in my mind, but which it would be lovely to be able to reflect in the game. Married quarters for herself and Corso, something that suggests the whole extended family they've become by class story's end. Same for the Inquisitor. Some way of personalising the environment, of reflecting in her 'home' the character the game's woven for her, a ruthless, feared and hatefully sociopathic Darth, who paradoxically treats her inner circle like a mother bear with her cubs.