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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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Chelz's Avatar


Chelz
09.10.2012 , 02:08 AM | #651
What is going on here? These are the changes you guys are making? Really? Stop with the PvP updates and focus on the story lines. There is nothing to do after lvl 50 but play Huttball 10 times in a row with the same 16 people. That is why you are loosing people. Fix and update the story lines.


Edit: Also, stop messing with the Sage/Sorc's. We get screwed enough.

Cakellene's Avatar


Cakellene
09.10.2012 , 02:14 AM | #652
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
The only change that I immediately see as good, is changing overload into a cone, as it was completely overpowered in huttball and utterly useless in PVE.
That change will make it useless to me in PvE.
What part of Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn don't you understand?

bloomfireblade's Avatar


bloomfireblade
09.10.2012 , 04:30 AM | #653
Quote: Originally Posted by anakedcowboy View Post
Every patch you nerf things for PVP that will have an unintended impact on PVE. Do you think force stun isn't used in PVE?

Is it not possible to have abilities work 1 way in PVP zones and another outside?
tell that to Austin Peckenpaugh he is the nerf master around here and as it stands this is what coming our way depending the none said tweaks are not doing more damage then good.
but that suggestion is good tbh why not have different affects on pvp and pve after all both are different fields
and should be also handled differently.
In Dev Evolution concerns as this is the philosophy of Bioware .and a splitting of pvp / pve skill effect would be an evolution in my pov

Digimanbyte_ID's Avatar


Digimanbyte_ID
09.10.2012 , 04:30 AM | #654
Quote: Originally Posted by Chelz View Post
What is going on here? These are the changes you guys are making? Really? Stop with the PvP updates and focus on the story lines. There is nothing to do after lvl 50 but play Huttball 10 times in a row with the same 16 people. That is why you are loosing people. Fix and update the story lines.
I think thats more of an expansion content. You do have operations. But like you clearly pointed out they really need to fix the huge population imbalances. Really disheartening to face a premade over and over to get squashed during peak hours or having to wait hours in queues during dead times.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chelz View Post
Edit: Also, stop messing with the Sage/Sorc's. We get screwed enough.
QFT

I don't know what it is with every MMO and a sorcerer based class being nerfed down to useless meatbags that will go splat. But its really annoying to see other guys outlast my damage with their huge health while in the same gear I am in. But when the tables are turned I see one guy take on 5 others on that focuses a lot of time to kill them because of a bunch of CD's.

Either gives us the same defense type CD's you give to other ranged DPS/Healers. Or gives us overwhelming damage to give us a reason to be squash able.

Darth_Philar's Avatar


Darth_Philar
09.10.2012 , 07:24 AM | #655
I'm almost convinced that "Balance" at Bioware consists of two phases:

1. Throw dart at board to see which class to change.
2. Flip coin to see if buff or nerf.
Server: The Fatman
Philar - Corruption Sorcerer - Level 50 | Satarel - Rage Marauder - Level 50
Geheime - Concealment Operative - Level 20 | Zahhak - Arsenal Mercenary - Level 17

Cakellene's Avatar


Cakellene
09.10.2012 , 08:05 AM | #656
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Philar View Post
I'm almost convinced that "Balance" at Bioware consists of two phases:

1. Throw dart at board to see which class to change.
2. Flip coin to see if buff or nerf.
That system would probably be an improvement.
What part of Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn don't you understand?

Darth_Philar's Avatar


Darth_Philar
09.10.2012 , 08:49 AM | #657
Here is my full analysis of the impact of the change to Overload/Force Wave:

Knockbacks are used against melee, who are limited to 4 and 10 meter ranges. The gain from 8m to 15m range has NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER to the sorcerer, but the radius reduction has a negative impact for the sorcerer AND the knockback range increase from 8m to <10m actually HELPS the guy you are knocking back.

Here is how Overload works right now:
A. At <4m, melee can use all of their melee abilities. My knockback will move the melee from <4m to >4m & <10m.

B. At >4m & <8m, melee can use a handful of abilities, but are severely limited in DPS (and resource generation if JK/SW) and cannot instantly close the gap (unless Rage specced). My knockback will move the melee from >4m & <8m to >8m & <12m

C. At >8m & <10m, the same limits on melee apply from B. above, however I cannot use my knockback on these players since my range is 8m.

D. At 10m, melee are able to use their instant gap closer and return to <4m.

Ergo, my knockback's primary effectiveness is from >0m to <6m (moving melee attackers to >4 to <10m). Any enemy that is between 6 and 8 meters will gain enough space to be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 8 to <10 meters will not be affected by the knockback, but will also be unable to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 10 to 30 meters will not be affected by the knockback but will be able to use their gap closer.

Here is how Overload will work with this change:
A. At <4m, melee can use all of their melee abilities. My knockback will move the melee from <4m to >4m & <10m.

B. At >4m & <8m, melee can use a handful of abilities, but are severely limited in DPS (and resource generation if JK/SW) and cannot instantly close the gap (unless Rage specced). My knockback will move the melee from >4m & <8m to >8m & <12m

C. At >8m & <10m, the same limits on melee apply from B. above. My knockback will move the melee from >8m & <10m to >12m & <14m removing the gap closing restriction from the melee.

D. At 10m, melee are able to use their instant gap closer and return to <4m.

Ergo, my knockback's primary effectiveness remains from >0m to <6m (moving melee attackers to >4 to <10m). Any enemy that is between 6 and 8 meters will gain enough space to be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 8 to <10 meters will be affected by the knockback, AND will also be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 10 to 15 meters will be affected by the knockback and will be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 15 to 30 meters will be unaffected by the knockback and will be able to use their gap closer.

Essentially, this change makes it EASIER for melee to close the gap on the sorcerer since any knockback from 8 to <10 meters (which wasn't possible before) will give them enough space to leap to you. This effectively DOUBLES the range at which a knockback is detrimental to the user. Not only does the sorcerer have to aim the ability now, but we also must pay even more attention to the range meter on their portrait in order to ensure that we don't move them into leap range.

Quite possibly the single most idiotic change in the history of video game development.
Server: The Fatman
Philar - Corruption Sorcerer - Level 50 | Satarel - Rage Marauder - Level 50
Geheime - Concealment Operative - Level 20 | Zahhak - Arsenal Mercenary - Level 17

Sundragon's Avatar


Sundragon
09.10.2012 , 09:05 AM | #658
I'll go ahead and provide you with the Bioware response:

But....but......the sorc/sage now get a moderate self-heal every 30 seconds!!! That more than compensates for the additional nerfs to the already weakest class in the game! Plus, you can now stun lock folks more easily!
█||||()||||█Ξ███████████████████)

Karillon's Avatar


Karillon
09.10.2012 , 11:25 AM | #659
I agree with most of you that the developer had the wrong idea with these changes, it really does nothing to the balance of the game in warzones. The real issue was with sentinels and marauders. Take away thier leap, stealth escape, bubble and master strike, and then they will be close to being on the same playing level as the rest of the classes are.

Bioware - How many posts and suggestions by the other 1,000 people does it take for you to finally get it through your head that Sentinels and Marauders are way to overpowered. Was your intention just to see those two classes in PvP, because that's all you see now really. It's pathetic that no one wants to play any other class, they just follow where they think the most damage in PvP will lead them. Lemmings!
Karillon

BaronV's Avatar


BaronV
09.10.2012 , 12:32 PM | #660
Because your excellent explanation is long, Im quoting it below rather than above.

Id just like to add that in addition to what Dath_Philar said, Overload is also used to knock a group of melee attackers who have surrounded you. As D_P explained, the new overload's primary effectiveness is for <6m, but because of the idiotic cone, fewer people get knocked back. In fact if the enemies are right at you (1m or less) than only the person who is immediately in front of you will get knocked back! (remember the cone starts as a point at your positon and extends outward 120 deg) So in addition to all that you have to be sure you are perfectly facing the enemy to throw im behind...

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Philar View Post
Here is my full analysis of the impact of the change to Overload/Force Wave:

Knockbacks are used against melee, who are limited to 4 and 10 meter ranges. The gain from 8m to 15m range has NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER to the sorcerer, but the radius reduction has a negative impact for the sorcerer AND the knockback range increase from 8m to <10m actually HELPS the guy you are knocking back.

Here is how Overload works right now:
A. At <4m, melee can use all of their melee abilities. My knockback will move the melee from <4m to >4m & <10m.

B. At >4m & <8m, melee can use a handful of abilities, but are severely limited in DPS (and resource generation if JK/SW) and cannot instantly close the gap (unless Rage specced). My knockback will move the melee from >4m & <8m to >8m & <12m

C. At >8m & <10m, the same limits on melee apply from B. above, however I cannot use my knockback on these players since my range is 8m.

D. At 10m, melee are able to use their instant gap closer and return to <4m.

Ergo, my knockback's primary effectiveness is from >0m to <6m (moving melee attackers to >4 to <10m). Any enemy that is between 6 and 8 meters will gain enough space to be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 8 to <10 meters will not be affected by the knockback, but will also be unable to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 10 to 30 meters will not be affected by the knockback but will be able to use their gap closer.

Here is how Overload will work with this change:
A. At <4m, melee can use all of their melee abilities. My knockback will move the melee from <4m to >4m & <10m.

B. At >4m & <8m, melee can use a handful of abilities, but are severely limited in DPS (and resource generation if JK/SW) and cannot instantly close the gap (unless Rage specced). My knockback will move the melee from >4m & <8m to >8m & <12m

C. At >8m & <10m, the same limits on melee apply from B. above. My knockback will move the melee from >8m & <10m to >12m & <14m removing the gap closing restriction from the melee.

D. At 10m, melee are able to use their instant gap closer and return to <4m.

Ergo, my knockback's primary effectiveness remains from >0m to <6m (moving melee attackers to >4 to <10m). Any enemy that is between 6 and 8 meters will gain enough space to be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 8 to <10 meters will be affected by the knockback, AND will also be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 10 to 15 meters will be affected by the knockback and will be able to use their gap closer. Any enemy from 15 to 30 meters will be unaffected by the knockback and will be able to use their gap closer.

Essentially, this change makes it EASIER for melee to close the gap on the sorcerer since any knockback from 8 to <10 meters (which wasn't possible before) will give them enough space to leap to you. This effectively DOUBLES the range at which a knockback is detrimental to the user. Not only does the sorcerer have to aim the ability now, but we also must pay even more attention to the range meter on their portrait in order to ensure that we don't move them into leap range.

Quite possibly the single most idiotic change in the history of video game development.
I used to be a Jedi like you - until I took a blaster bolt to the knee