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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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Siobhan_DN's Avatar


Siobhan_DN
09.06.2012 , 10:32 AM | #551
With all due respect, I think turning my ranged dps Bounty Hunter's CC into a MELEE goes against everything that was set up for it's class and story line. I do not PVP and I'm not interested in it. I'm here for the story progression, my guild, and to be able to solo my dailies when no one is around to help. I can see how non BH PVP players would love to nerf the BH CC...however, it is a huge debilitation for PVE. My BH is still stuck in chapter 3 (known bug for almost a year know with no fix in site per customer service) and unload still gets stuck. Yes, you can hit recharge/reload but, it still allows a BH to get a hit while dealing with it.

Can't you guys at least change it back in the PVE experience...where there are multiple targets to deal with? Thus far, it seems like the entire game is starting to cater to the PVP. I have been with the game since the start and even beta tested it. I looked forward to it's release just like everyone else.. Surely there's room for players like me, right?
I hope so cause I really like the ranged DPS class but, getting ready to go find a game that sticks to what the story of the game is all about.
one, two, Sio's coming for you...

Aniliss's Avatar


Aniliss
09.06.2012 , 10:34 AM | #552
After reading the blog again, I can say that Bioware doesn't understand pvp at all. "We’ve also made adjustments to the Resolve system in Game Update 1.4. We’ve adjusted the gain logic of Resolve such that simultaneous and overlapping control effects no longer linearly add together their Resolve gain values. Instead, using a crowd control ability on an already controlled target now applies reasonable Resolve gain values by comparing the incoming control effect to the greatest of existing control effects." So now the resolve bar will take even LONGER to fill up so chain stunning will be even more prevalent then it is now. The bottom line is that it is WAY to many CCs / stuns in this game. They call this improving the resolve system allowing more stuns to occur before your resolve system fills up... I believe that they honestly don't know *** they're doing.

The class changes aren't that bad.


Mercs / Commandos are getting a well deserved and much needed buff. They were the only class without an interrupt which was quite unfair. I'm glad that Bioware is buffing the dps trees to make Mercs/ Commandos more viable giving them more kiting capabilities increasing their survival; immbolizations etc.

The Sorcerer buffs are intriguing (my main). The force speed reduced CD is great and all but this this vastly increases our survivability (from a healing standpoint) ten fold being able to kite even better then we can now. Honestly, I don't think it was needed it. The instant heal is something we've never quite had (resurgence purpose is only to enhance other abilities). A 30 second CD is reasonable I guess because it's not something I believe we need. FADEOUT- now this talent is a GIFT FROM GOD. Being rooted when you force speed not being able to widen the gap between you and your attacker / attackers to escape can easily result in your doom lol. This prevents carnage marauders ravage, snipers knock back and leg shot, and Lightning Sorcs knock back (it could be a few others I'm forgetting). This move is amazing but ALSO COMBINED with having a 20 second force speed CD is having WAY too much mobility IMO. The 10 yard electrocute nerf sucks imo. We are a ranged class and if our interrupt jolt can reach a target, so should our electrocute. I can't say much about polarity shift because that doesn't change the state of sorc dps. Backlash will be annoying.

For the people complaining about the Merc/ Commando and Sorc/Sage knockback nerf, it's NOT hard to MOUSE turn. With all these classes having a 360 AOE knockback unintentionally making good plays was whack. Turn around to knock back, it's not difficult.


So far, overall over the course of my 9 month tenure. I've seen Bioware drive this game into the dirt patch after patch. They are taking the opposite steps to actually fix this game and after reading the resolve changes, I can confirm that they don't have a *********** clue.

What they need to do:

1. First and foremost, fix the hero engine so we can finally have smooth and gameplay instead of this choppy mess.

2. Add a diminishing return system like WoW (before trying to balance classes) so this game won't be STUNwars.

3. After the hero engine is fixed and this game can take mass amounts of ppl in the same area unlike Ilum, implement world pvp with APPEALING incentives and some type of 5 v 5 arena or smaller group based pvp ranking system that requires less then 8 ppl to get an organized group.

4. Give pvers whatever it is that they need. This is the first mmo where I haven't been interested to get into organized raids. Something is just missing and it blows imo.

COOL STORY INC:

Instead of directly trying to fix the known problems, Bioware is trying to get more subs going F2P. They need to worry about fixing the game 1st and patch after patch, I fail to see how they plan to improve. I've watched this game for 3 years waiting for it to come out believe in all the EA hype hoping it dethroned WoW because I wanted a breathe of fresh air. EA rushed the game out during the highest point of hype to generate the max amount of revenue and tossed this game out for release before the hero engine was finished and this game is still suffering from that.

From a pvper stand point, ONE BILLION warzones were played during the 1st month of the game. I'm not saying leave pvers in the dust but THAT is your money right there. Each patch they left pvpers in the dust. 1.1, Ilum was already horribly designed trading nodes and aoe fest as world pvp. They took that from us completely and now we have no world pvp period )not to mention the hero engine couldn't handle Ilum). 1.2 they falsely promulgated ranked warzones. They pulled ranked warzones from the patch 6 hours before it went live. LOADS of ppl who quit the game came back JUST for ranked. How in the world can can these professional developers find out SIX hours before the patch that major content isn't ready for launch?? In that time frame between though two patches, over 500k ppl quit. Pretty sure a lot of them were pvpers.

I try to be optimistic about this game and hope it makes a turn around. I DO openly bash this game but it's out of resentment because of the level of disappointment I have went through. I've stuck around this long but they seem to continually go in the wrong direction and the resolve changes are just plan retarded. I can't even believe that they posted that up as if it was really an improvement and they are professionals... If any game could of dethroned WoW, it was this game. Star Wars has the largest fan base of any franchise in the world and EA along with Biowares horrible decision making seems to continue to drive this game into the dirt.
Neferteri Sorceror
Kojen Marauder
The Skilled Capped Legacy

Murder_Toys's Avatar


Murder_Toys
09.06.2012 , 11:46 AM | #553
Quote: Originally Posted by Aniliss View Post
After reading the blog again, I can say that Bioware doesn't understand pvp at all. "We’ve also made adjustments to the Resolve system in Game Update 1.4. We’ve adjusted the gain logic of Resolve such that simultaneous and overlapping control effects no longer linearly add together their Resolve gain values. Instead, using a crowd control ability on an already controlled target now applies reasonable Resolve gain values by comparing the incoming control effect to the greatest of existing control effects." So now the resolve bar will take even LONGER to fill up so chain stunning will be even more prevalent then it is now. The bottom line is that it is WAY to many CCs / stuns in this game. They call this improving the resolve system allowing more stuns to occur before your resolve system fills up... I believe that they honestly don't know *** they're doing.

The class changes aren't that bad.


Mercs / Commandos are getting a well deserved and much needed buff. They were the only class without an interrupt which was quite unfair. I'm glad that Bioware is buffing the dps trees to make Mercs/ Commandos more viable giving them more kiting capabilities increasing their survival; immbolizations etc.

The Sorcerer buffs are intriguing (my main). The force speed reduced CD is great and all but this this vastly increases our survivability (from a healing standpoint) ten fold being able to kite even better then we can now. Honestly, I don't think it was needed it. The instant heal is something we've never quite had (resurgence purpose is only to enhance other abilities). A 30 second CD is reasonable I guess because it's not something I believe we need. FADEOUT- now this talent is a GIFT FROM GOD. Being rooted when you force speed not being able to widen the gap between you and your attacker / attackers to escape can easily result in your doom lol. This prevents carnage marauders ravage, snipers knock back and leg shot, and Lightning Sorcs knock back (it could be a few others I'm forgetting). This move is amazing but ALSO COMBINED with having a 20 second force speed CD is having WAY too much mobility IMO. The 10 yard electrocute nerf sucks imo. We are a ranged class and if our interrupt jolt can reach a target, so should our electrocute. I can't say much about polarity shift because that doesn't change the state of sorc dps. Backlash will be annoying.

For the people complaining about the Merc/ Commando and Sorc/Sage knockback nerf, it's NOT hard to MOUSE turn. With all these classes having a 360 AOE knockback unintentionally making good plays was whack. Turn around to knock back, it's not difficult.


So far, overall over the course of my 9 month tenure. I've seen Bioware drive this game into the dirt patch after patch. They are taking the opposite steps to actually fix this game and after reading the resolve changes, I can confirm that they don't have a *********** clue.

What they need to do:

1. First and foremost, fix the hero engine so we can finally have smooth and gameplay instead of this choppy mess.

2. Add a diminishing return system like WoW (before trying to balance classes) so this game won't be STUNwars.

3. After the hero engine is fixed and this game can take mass amounts of ppl in the same area unlike Ilum, implement world pvp with APPEALING incentives and some type of 5 v 5 arena or smaller group based pvp ranking system that requires less then 8 ppl to get an organized group.

4. Give pvers whatever it is that they need. This is the first mmo where I haven't been interested to get into organized raids. Something is just missing and it blows imo.

COOL STORY INC:

Instead of directly trying to fix the known problems, Bioware is trying to get more subs going F2P. They need to worry about fixing the game 1st and patch after patch, I fail to see how they plan to improve. I've watched this game for 3 years waiting for it to come out believe in all the EA hype hoping it dethroned WoW because I wanted a breathe of fresh air. EA rushed the game out during the highest point of hype to generate the max amount of revenue and tossed this game out for release before the hero engine was finished and this game is still suffering from that.

From a pvper stand point, ONE BILLION warzones were played during the 1st month of the game. I'm not saying leave pvers in the dust but THAT is your money right there. Each patch they left pvpers in the dust. 1.1, Ilum was already horribly designed trading nodes and aoe fest as world pvp. They took that from us completely and now we have no world pvp period )not to mention the hero engine couldn't handle Ilum). 1.2 they falsely promulgated ranked warzones. They pulled ranked warzones from the patch 6 hours before it went live. LOADS of ppl who quit the game came back JUST for ranked. How in the world can can these professional developers find out SIX hours before the patch that major content isn't ready for launch?? In that time frame between though two patches, over 500k ppl quit. Pretty sure a lot of them were pvpers.

I try to be optimistic about this game and hope it makes a turn around. I DO openly bash this game but it's out of resentment because of the level of disappointment I have went through. I've stuck around this long but they seem to continually go in the wrong direction and the resolve changes are just plan retarded. I can't even believe that they posted that up as if it was really an improvement and they are professionals... If any game could of dethroned WoW, it was this game. Star Wars has the largest fan base of any franchise in the world and EA along with Biowares horrible decision making seems to continue to drive this game into the dirt.
What your saying is ...

IF 1.4 nerfs you BW is wrong

IF 1.4 OP's you BW is Wrong /............

Gr8 post buddy .
MurderToys | Empire | MurderToy | Republic
<pantheon of forstclaw>
http://pantheonguild.co.uk/home

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
09.06.2012 , 12:16 PM | #554
Quote: Originally Posted by Murder_Toys View Post
What your saying is ...

IF 1.4 nerfs you BW is wrong

IF 1.4 OP's you BW is Wrong /............

Gr8 post buddy .
no, his post is outlining his opinions on what is important, yet not being addressed by developers.

and he has very valid points.

especially, the OW PvP, hero engine improvments, PvE incentives/content, and how this game has been out for 9 months and they have done little to improve it's performance, playablitiy, and RE-playability since beta.

reading comprehension is really a lost skill.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

However's Avatar


However
09.06.2012 , 12:31 PM | #555
Time for everyone to roll stealth classes. They are already overpowered in pvp. Many would prefer pvp without stealth classes at all. But now they appear to be the only future option. Do you really think it is fun to get stunned to death without being able to fight back? So much fun that you want to give this “punk/coward” class even more power and options?

Lleyto's Avatar


Lleyto
09.06.2012 , 12:49 PM | #556
This whole thing just signals the end of my SWTOR subscription. I tried to hold on and remain loyal while they shifted to the F2P, in the hopes that the drive to capture the revenue possibilities and numbers that market would avail to the game MIGHT end up in quality improvements and sound decisions based on factual interpretations of actual player input and the relevant data generated by game play, but after reading this non-sense it seems that BioWare is just total off in the woods with no a phk'n clue of what they are doing, where they should be focusing their attention and what they should be working on. Maybe they'll endure a similar fate to LOTR or DDO and stumble / fall then stand up and take strides, but without a doubt it'll be minus my supporting $$$$. ><

such a shame too. . ..

NoaFlux's Avatar


NoaFlux
09.06.2012 , 01:06 PM | #557
Quote: Originally Posted by However View Post
Time for everyone to roll stealth classes. They are already overpowered in pvp. Many would prefer pvp without stealth classes at all. But now they appear to be the only future option. Do you really think it is fun to get stunned to death without being able to fight back? So much fun that you want to give this “punk/coward” class even more power and options?
No way. Read the blogs about Force Wave etc. I do very little damage, but I guess those in my class who play dps are very strong but they're supposed to be. As far as myself and some other stealths we are really struggling. I might last long as a stealth but I struggle to get over 150,000 damage in WH. With the right gear I might get 300,000. Not sure. but that's normal not overpowered.

Eljayz's Avatar


Eljayz
09.06.2012 , 01:08 PM | #558
From my understanding from reading the post about the changes to CC, is that overlapping CC will not fill the resolve as it did in the past.

For example: 2 people use 4 second stuns at the same time. 4 second stuns fill the resolve bar 4/5 bars. Essentially stacking them both will automatically fill resolve. That was a very poor system. They're changing it to prevent overlapping stuns that fill resolve.

Now here is the question.
Difference between stun and incapacitate:
Stun means taking damage doesn't break the CC. Incapacitate breaks on damage
Stuns:
2second stuns (Ops(ops are 1.5s but fill resolve like 2sec)/assasins/Pts) fill the resolve bar 2/5 so you can stack 2 back to back and still not fill resolve.
3 sec stuns (Juggs/Mara) Not 100% sure but pretty sure it fills 3/5
4 second stuns Fill the resolve bar 4/5, almost all classes except jugg/maras have a STATIC 4 sec stun w/o having to spec or gear for it.

Incapacitate: break on damage
awes: 6 second
Cybertech: 4 seconds
Forcelift/whirlwind: 8 seconds
mindmaze/traqdart/sap: 8 seconds
Flashbang - 8 seconds
Merc/commando (can't remember the name, concussive....) - 8 second
Tele Sages bubble (3 sec)

The way the game is right now you can use two 2 second stuns and still not fill resolve and use a 4 second stun after that for maximum stun time. 8 Second stun Or you can use two 4 second stuns and have the same effect. 2 and 3 second stuns fill resolve as well as 3 and 4 second stuns. But overlapping stuns will yield a lower stun time. Usually a maximum of 4-5 seconds. 5 Seconds of stun usually mean a full resolve time. The exception to this rule is 2 vanguards with 3 second aoe stuns which only full resolve 2 bars.

So if someone is running around freely, they should recieve the FULL DURATION stun WITH the full resolve. But this is where it can become broken.

a) a 2 second stun overlapped by a 4 second stun, which takes precedence? Which take dominance? 6 seconds of stun should always fill resolve.
b)a 2 second stun overlapped with a 4 second stun 1 second after the 2 second stun was activated. If the 4 second stun takes precidence, does the resolve add like a 5 second stun and fill resolve?

I'd like to see the existing Stun take precedence while the 2nd stun is rendered useless.

But this next scenario would work better: In the case of a weaker stun followed by a stronger stun, I'd like to see something like this: The stronger stun takes precedence but only fills the resolve of the difference between the stuns. For example: An existing 2 second stun overlapped by a 4 second stun should only fill 2 bars. If a player is only stunned for 1 out of the 2 seconds before the 4 second stun was applied, then the 4 second stun should only add 3 seconds from that point and add the difference between the resolve bars, which is 2/5 for the total of 4 seconds as 2/5 bars is already in play with the preceding 2 second stun. Total stun time 4 seconds, total resolve 4/5.

There should also be a diminishing return on how much resolve is filled during a duration of a stun. The D/R should be EXTREMELY HIGH at the beginning of a stun, but SIGNIFICANTLY lower towards the end or at the end of a stun duration. If two people overlap stuns at the same time, the added resolve should be none or next to nothing. And as the stun duration continues, decrease the DR.

Also what are your plans on people overlapping incapacitates with stuns? like a flash bang and a stun simultaneously?

Russkiier's Avatar


Russkiier
09.06.2012 , 01:38 PM | #559
I do not understand the massive PvE QQ. From the perspective of a sorc healer, these changes look great. Corruption got a buff, lightning got a buff, madness got the smallest buff of the three. These arent even the patch notes and people are qq and threatening to quit.

grow up and act like adults, try it on the PTS, when it comes out and make your decisions.

Tamareu's Avatar


Tamareu
09.06.2012 , 01:57 PM | #560
Ok... Great.

And What about the Jedi Knight/Sith Warriors? Nothing about them?

Don't you plan to fix the Defense/immortal tree? No?
Ok... screw you bioware...

Every class has its change, but not these one. Why? Your new guardian slash is completly ******, and is not even on par with the Zaelous leap or the Overhead Slash, it costs too much, does low damage, and has a higher CD than OS with vigilance.
Damn! This skill should be the most ****** skill in defense tree since it's the tier 7, the ultimate f*cking skill, and everyone is giving it up for...OS.