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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 02:26 PM | #461
Quote: Originally Posted by oredith View Post
probably because they want it to be a defensive cooldown, rather than an offensive cooldown?

"hey look, a pyro is walking up to me from 30m away.. oh look, now he's at 10m.. jee, should I use my KB, or my sprint, or my stun"
Yea i get that part, but when i use it, often times its utility. As a healer, i tend to stun high damage dealers that are hitting the people i'm healing, gives me a 4 sec boost to the amount of health that player is getting back. Another neat trick is stunning the snipers sitting on edges in huttball giving ball carriers a chance to jump to them, with good communication of course.

iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 02:32 PM | #462
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSunStar View Post
Yes, but as i said in my last post: what about just placing some simple walls? How is placing some walls here and there not better than nerfing abilities?
Put a couple walls down in key spots and the developers will not have to go against the promise to not change Classes solely due to problems that occur in PvP.
I think i get what you're saying but I don't Devs want to eliminate the possibility of KB'ing someone to a toasty death, they just want you to have the intent of doing it every time instead of every 3/4 times or so. Or if you want to push people off bridges, you have to put yourself more at risk, because if you want to maximize the people you hit you have to stand on the edge and cant stand safely (or more safe than the edges) in the middle.

Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
09.05.2012 , 02:35 PM | #463
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
Isn't that the whole issue with resolve? That 2 players are capable of taking you out of the game for 8 seconds while they beat on you? As a sage- even with the new changes - how am I supposed to survive with a marauder on me for 8 seconds when I can't cast or move?

TheSunStar's Avatar


TheSunStar
09.05.2012 , 02:37 PM | #464
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about. [...]
Thank you very much for your post AllisonBerryman! I know that many people were wondering if their posts were actually being read in other threads, and your post is the sort of thing everyone needs in order to know that their complaints, suggestions, compliments, and comments are being taken seriously.

Thanks!
⌐~*TheSunStar
The Lytstar Legacy

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
09.05.2012 , 02:41 PM | #465
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
Thanks for getting back with the community on this.

However, after reading the changes and the explanation, it sounds like talking in circles. It sounds like the developers are just as confused about how Resolve actually works as the rest of us are.

Achyuta's Avatar


Achyuta
09.05.2012 , 02:42 PM | #466
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about.

First of all, please do keep in mind that reading about changes and experiencing them can be different. We are looking forward to your feedback once you've had some time to see these changes when the PTS becomes available!

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

What this change actually does is make "wasted" control not build extraneous Resolve. Once this change goes live, two well-coordinated players will not be able to control a target for any longer than they ever were able to before. In the live game and after this change, the optimal control strategy is and will continue to be "player B uses his control after player A's control has worn off." The only change is that two uncoordinated players aren't unduly and additionally punished for wasting their control.



Consider the following examples under the new system:

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


Consider those same examples under the old system:

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
so what about the chain stuns? I'm pretty sure, the majority of the PVPers in this game hate being stunned for the full 8 seconds and then dying.
ZakurMercenary

Makais's Avatar


Makais
09.05.2012 , 02:48 PM | #467
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
Thanks for getting back with the community on this.

However, after reading the changes and the explanation, it sounds like talking in circles. It sounds like the developers are just as confused about how Resolve actually works as the rest of us are.
Touché brother...

And what about buffs for tank assassin? Can't read it anywhere... Must be that 1 minute on force cloak. Wooow...
In Vino Veritas

TheSunStar's Avatar


TheSunStar
09.05.2012 , 02:50 PM | #468
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
I think i get what you're saying but I don't Devs want to eliminate the possibility of KB'ing someone to a toasty death, they just want you to have the intent of doing it every time instead of every 3/4 times or so. Or if you want to push people off bridges, you have to put yourself more at risk, because if you want to maximize the people you hit you have to stand on the edge and cant stand safely (or more safe than the edges) in the middle.
As a ranged squishy class you are already putting yourself at risk by running up to the group of enemy players in order to push them off. Those enemy players all have the chance to stun you or to push you off before you push them off.

Another thing about the 360 degree push off -> that only works on a walkway or bridge. Not on a cliff: as those behind you just get pushed further on land - not off of the cliff.
⌐~*TheSunStar
The Lytstar Legacy

Tuscad's Avatar


Tuscad
09.05.2012 , 02:55 PM | #469
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about.

First of all, please do keep in mind that reading about changes and experiencing them can be different. We are looking forward to your feedback once you've had some time to see these changes when the PTS becomes available!

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

What this change actually does is make "wasted" control not build extraneous Resolve. Once this change goes live, two well-coordinated players will not be able to control a target for any longer than they ever were able to before. In the live game and after this change, the optimal control strategy is and will continue to be "player B uses his control after player A's control has worn off." The only change is that two uncoordinated players aren't unduly and additionally punished for wasting their control.



Consider the following examples under the new system:

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


Consider those same examples under the old system:

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
  • Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  • Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  • Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.
Even though I am against the change your post is appreciated.
Date Joined: March 2009 - Date unsubbed: 9/18/2012
It's been real but the game just wasn't worth the sub for me anymore.
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oredith's Avatar


oredith
09.05.2012 , 03:06 PM | #470
the problem, as always, is perspective.

the players complaining about it are seeing it from the perspective of "i was just 100-0'd by 4 people while completely stunned, and resolve did nothing for me until i was dead"

meanwhile, bioware is looking at it from a 2v1 type scenario, where 2 players coordinated attacking 1 is able to shut him down and kill him, which is working as intended.

there's a gap here that neither side seems to want to look at, and instead, clinging to the extremes.
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