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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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CadaKai's Avatar


CadaKai
09.05.2012 , 01:09 PM | #431
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
About the change to AoE Overload:
You know it's still possible to take like 5 steps back and hit most if not all the people attacking you with the Overload, THEN turn around and run away instead. The range has been increased to 15 from 8 in case most of you missed that. This effectively means that all your targets will be pushed away from you as your run instead of having them haphazardly tossed around you, and in some cases getting unintended/not really deserved kills by knocking them in to acid/fire/off bridges/ etc. (Arguably, it's the attackers fault for standing between a sorc/sage and the hazard but eh.) This also works in PvE.
It actually doesnt work in PVE and probably wont work in pvp.

Do all classes stand in a nice little 120 degree arc? Do they move when you move?
In PVE do mobs reposition when you move or just stand there?
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
09.05.2012 , 01:12 PM | #432
Quote: Originally Posted by CourtneyWoods View Post
Hello everyone,

Please discuss this week's Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4 blog in this thread!
A couple things of note for your developers:

You've increased the effectiveness of the kiting system
I do not agree with you making resolve less effective.
You've added more time a player will be under the effect of a stun.
You've made the 2 healers impossible to stop from scoring rampantly in huttball.

I do not understand why you are nerfing resolve. Did anyone ever ask for resolve to be less of a factor in pvp? Which developer determined that math formula needed to be adjusted so that resolve mattered even less in pvp than it does now? So now if you screw up and hit someone again resolve isn't stacking. So now you'll have shorter time to kills as you won't ever miss fill resolves?

I love the thought of playing deception. Thank you for trying to make that a viable pvp advanced class. I was hoping you'd actually make resolve more effective at preventing chain stunning. This is going to make instant cast whirlwind more required of assassins as shutting down healers is now going to be super easy. The TTK is going up in ranked and non-ranked warzones and I think your going to have more healers complaining. I know I am adding back in more CC since you nerfed resolve.
"At last we will have our revenge" -Darth Maul
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iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 01:13 PM | #433
Quote: Originally Posted by CadaKai View Post
It actually doesnt work in PVE and probably wont work in pvp.

Do all classes stand in a nice little 120 degree arc? Do they move when you move?
In PVE do mobs reposition when you move or just stand there?
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
Repositioning doesn't happen immediately (however the new FW/O does), hence this little thing called kiting exists...
120 degree arc is nearly a full arc in front of you, it just barely misses things directly to the sides of you...

Tuscad's Avatar


Tuscad
09.05.2012 , 01:19 PM | #434
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
Kite just ahead of the train pursuing you, turn to face them (if they savagely pursue you as described), instantly use your Force Wave to knock them all back, and then use your new lower cooldown Force Speed to bolt from them all. How hard is that? lol

And I see by your response that you will try every excuse in the book to QQ about the change.




i.e. I have no argument and just like to QQ.

It has nothing to do with elitism. The question is very basic and simple. You have no answer because there isn't one.




That's missing the point of the change. The point of the change wasn't to require more skill in using Force Wave/Overload. The point was to bring more precision and control to the skill. The current implementation is spammy and haphazard in both PvE and PvP. Now you will have more determination on what targets you hit with FW and where those targets go after knocking them back. The change makes complete sense in that regard.
Telling people to learn to play when they don't like the class changes and "balance" seems elitist to me, if I go on to list what all doesn't work and is broken you will just ignore it and say learn 2 play which would just be a waste of effort and time on my part. I am not walking into that little trap.
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Makais's Avatar


Makais
09.05.2012 , 01:22 PM | #435
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
Force cloak is down 2min for all assassins and 1:30 if spec'd in deception. Secondly, no tank is truly tank-like in any PvP environment, it s just the way the system works and that in itself needs a separate revamp. As it stands now, almost all tanks and the like are using DPS gear, because the Tank gear gives you such a small increase in survivability in exchange for a massive loss of DPS. Also, since when are Assassins not viable tanks in the PvE environment, they are excellent tanks provided you keep your shield ward thing up.
Perhaps you should learn how to read first... not viable isn't quite the same as less tankish. They are not nearly as good as a jugg right now. In PvP, even with full dps gear I don't even get near a deception or madness specced assassin dps. And why does survivor gear exists in the first place if there's currently no use for it...
In Vino Veritas

Recon_Silencer's Avatar


Recon_Silencer
09.05.2012 , 01:24 PM | #436
I need to rant a bit about the 1.4 updates that'll change the sage. I'm sure once 1.4 is released and I get use to the new way to use crowd control I'll "Get Over It." I feel however these changes are making my character less valuable and this will further progress me into not enjoying SWTOR as a Sage.

Changing Force Stun from 30 meters to 10 meters? Force Wave from 360 Degree Knock back in a 8 meter radius to now a 120 degree cone in front of you at 15 meters?

Force Stun and 20 Second CD Force Run: The developers are basically nerfing crowd control in my opinion and nerfing Sages/Sourcers again since 1.2 in my opinion. I use Force Stun constantly at distant targets in PVP at 30 to 15 meters. At 10 meters you won't even be able to force stun a player on the opposite side of the acid pool in huttball - its +10.01 meters away. The sage's survivability depends on distancing themselves from the enemy players. It has made the new Force Stun used primarily to just get away from a player who is directly on top of you such as a melee fighter. You have to get into the range players 10 meter radius just to stun him. I'd like to see Force Stun at 15 meters if you're going to nerf it. The only benefit that has been given is Force Run will now have a 20 seconds cool down instead of 30 seconds. You're able to use force run 3 times per min instead of 2 times per minute. Thatís 6 seconds total of 150% speed increase per minute instead of 4 seconds per minute. Thatís great, but if I had to pick between 20 second cool down for force run over 10 meters for Force Stun, I need the Force Stun at 15 meters or more for it to be useful. Now I can run in, force stun the enemy and force run out. All of the Sage's abilities are at 30 meters. Yet Force Stun is going to be at 10 meters? Useless ability in PVP at 10 meters in my opinion. Also Iím not sure about other classes but here's a question. "Are all other Classes get to keep there stuns over a 10 meter distance?"

Force Wave: Force Wave from 360 Degree Knock back in a 8 meter radius to now a 120 degree cone in front of you at 15 meters? I don't know about other players that use the Sage, but in PVP such as Void Star - we are use to being able to knock the enemy back off the door that they are 1 second away from planting on. Ok ok, I'm cool with having to focus the front of my characters body at the enemy to knock them back. This will make me less lazy. Opps I missed the enemy cause they weren't in front of me. Now look - i have a agent or assassin behind me throwing mass amounts of dps. I can't use knock back if they're behind me. Why do I need to knock back players 15 meters in distance away from me anyways? Oh thatís right; my force stun can't reach the player at 15 meters duh.

New Healing: Cool you're giving us a new healing ability that heals the user for a moderate amount. I'm going to need it cause I can't seem to crowd control the DPS PVP player as well as I use to. Anyways I'm thankful the developers are going to give us new abilities if they're going to change on others. Again like i said before, I'm sure I'll get over it once 1.4 is out. I just feel these changes are making my character less valuable to enjoy in SWTOR.

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
09.05.2012 , 01:25 PM | #437
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
Repositioning doesn't happen immediately (however the new FW/O does), hence this little thing called kiting exists...
120 degree arc is nearly a full arc in front of you, it just barely misses things directly to the sides of you...
I guess I will just say this.. If it isn't broke then don't fix it.. I don't recall ever reading a complaint about Force Wave or the imperial's version of it.. I view it as pointless to change and nothing more than a needless nerf..

What is the point in decreasing the range of force stun, electroctute, and stuff?? 10m really?? So sages now have to run into use it?? What is next?? Decreasding the range of taunts for tanks?? Better not give them any ideas..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

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CadaKai's Avatar


CadaKai
09.05.2012 , 01:27 PM | #438
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
Repositioning doesn't happen immediately (however the new FW/O does), hence this little thing called kiting exists...
120 degree arc is nearly a full arc in front of you, it just barely misses things directly to the sides of you...
again i say obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.
You decide to walk backwards to reposition.. you walk backwards very slowly the 2 marauders standing behind you move to keep up their main hits that have to be done from behind. In PVE mobs react instantly to repositioning and you miss most of them as you are walking very slowly.

You decide to run forward and turn around... Run forward... spin.. fire move... spin... hit force speed... run away.
In a no lag world this would work great if the people you are fighting were retarded, or had no arms and used a pointy stick to mash their buttons.
In PVE again mobs reposition as soon as you move.

This is a bad change and pretty much you and 1 other guy think it is a good idea.

Obvious troll? or Fool?

Not sure which one

iamglass's Avatar


iamglass
09.05.2012 , 01:27 PM | #439
Quote: Originally Posted by Makais View Post
Perhaps you should learn how to read first... not viable isn't quite the same as less tankish. They are not nearly as good as a jugg right now. In PvP, even with full dps gear I don't even get near a deception or madness specced assassin dps. And why does survivor gear exists in the first place if there's currently no use for it...
I agree with that, in terms of PvP. And i have no clue why it does, but the general consensus is that defense/shield/absorb (the three big stats in all tanking armor) are fairly useless in terms of PvP as most abilities don't proc any of those. And while it's true that you don't get the same DPS as a deception or madness build, a hybrid build with some darkness in it boasts a fair amount of increased survivability with a median DPS than any single spec build. As it stands, hybrid tanksins are the best DPS tankish classes for PvP (with great utility too if you add in the pull)

ranzid's Avatar


ranzid
09.05.2012 , 01:29 PM | #440
Nice. So the resolve system is already messed up. Instead of making people unstun when they hit max resolve bar, they are going to mess with a bunch of inconsequential crap. Get a grip and fix what you already have first. So many little things are broken and tweaking things to avoid actually fixing the mechanics is going to drive me away.