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Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Class Changes and Balance in Game Update 1.4
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Bedrayne's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:35 AM | #411
Quote: Originally Posted by iamglass View Post
run back 5-10 steps, overload, turn around, force speed, LoS. Simpler, enemies get pushed further away from you, ranged would be too far to get hit by overload anyway.
So run back 5-10 steps... the people who are dpsing me aren't going to run with me? And if I back up they will be running forward and be faster, if I turn around and run I have to do a pair of 180s while not dpsing the sent/mara attached to my rear.

DMSL's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:37 AM | #412
Quote: Originally Posted by Bedrayne View Post
Having the stun and interrupt on the same spell would be pure fail. Either you would have an interrupt on a one minute cooldown (useless) or a stun on a 6-12 sec cooldown (way too op)
Like i said they can lower the CD which is currently 1 min to 30 seconds. The abilty stuns an enemy for the normal duration thus also countering any spell and on bosses, which are stun immune they just cancel the spell being cast.

Nagadeath's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:39 AM | #413
all right i am going to just go ahead and say it.

Dear Bioware: free to play will not save your game IF NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IT. if you want people to play your game make it fun and they will. continuing to take all the fun out of the game in the name of "PVP balance" is not the way to go.

we have been over this in every major update/nerf fest and every time you fail to learn that you have lost large chunks of your player base every time. these people will not come back and buy from your cash shop or sub if they no longer find the game fun.

P.S why can we not vote the thread 1 star it automatically bumps it up to 2 stars?

StormEarth's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:40 AM | #414
So the jedi guardian is totally abandoned? You don't have nothing to fix? What about to suffer more damage than a sentinel?

I'm full war hero augmented, focus spec, and suffer more damage than a sentinel and i don't have the same damage.

Where's the balance?

iamglass's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:40 AM | #415
@ sundragon's post:
1) yes, but most enemies will likely be doing the back and forth/circling routine, meaning you will catch some by surprise, especially if you don't always pick back as the method to hit them (sides and front can work to albeit requiring a bit more timing to turn push back)

2) unless you were positioned exactly right, and the enemies were exactly in the right location. you would still run through/into some enemies escaping with the 360 degree arc, this lessens that possibility.

3) not sure what to say about the first part as spamming overload to knock enemies in every which direction was easy, but the second part i completely agree that the range nerf on the stun is unnecessary. dumb, since the sorc/sage is a ranged only class, with no melee specs, therefore it should have a ranged stun.

As far as DPS classes go, yea sorc/sages are getting the short end of the stick with these changes. I feel that the new insta heal should ignore gcd (combined with some clutch shields, could extend survivability quite a bit) and the no snare/root should include all movement impairing abilities, so people cannot pull/hook shot you back also, it should be lower on the tree so that both DPS and Healers can make use of it. It shouldn't be a healers only specc'd ability.

Abishi's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:46 AM | #416
Fixing the resolve issues was definatly needed but I am just not convince about the other class changes I thought the balance was pretty good as it stands...I play a shadow tank and I love it and how it plays... I don't think its OP'd like some claim because I have a bunch of 50s and it all comes down to whos playing it...if you know how to play your class and your properly geared trust me you'll do just fine.

Lightbins's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:47 AM | #417
Can someone from the Bioware team tells us when(e.g. this week, next week) to expect an article detailing changes to the classes (e.g. increase dps, ...)? Hopefully the reply won't be "soon".

The current changes related to pvp are so so and hard to make a proper assessment if I only have a sample of the bigger picture.


DarthOvertone's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 11:58 AM | #418
Quote: Originally Posted by DorkTrooper View Post
Every class balance change makes me wish PvP and PvE had totally separate specs.
Why? Of the proposed changes, please state which change is totally detrimental to PvE as it is currently played, both leveling and in endgame. Sorry, but some of the carebears in this thread are overreactiing, mainly because they are bad.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tuscad View Post
They should make different skill sets for PVP and PVE so that PVE doesnt get screwed over by all of this nerfing.
More QQ. Please list the skill that screwed you over and will cause a PvE apocalypse.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kyriosgundam View Post
I agree I loved that Force Wave/Overload nailed all opponents in a 360 arc around you. It came in handy when solo and surrounded by enemies. So PvE players like me get screwed because PvPers complained (which they never stop doing).
I'm not a huge fan of the Force Wave/Overload change, but I welcome it and understand the need. Why? Firstly, because it will now require some skill to use. Yes, apparently turning and facing your opponent requires skill in this game. lol

FW/O is currently very easily spammed without any concern or intent whatsoever. Now players will have to actually think about how they use the skill. So there will be some separation of the droolers from more adept players. I embrace this.

Not to mention that the animation dependency has been removed. The skill will now be instant and that's a major boon. By the way, no PvPers complained about this. The assumption that this was changed solely for PvP because of PvP QQ is completely unfounded.

And did you read all the notes or just fixate on one change? Assasins/Shadows are getting their DPS buffed, at least Deception/Infiltration specs. Additionally, all JCs are getting a buff to their Force Speed and a lower cooldown on their Force Cloak. Assassins/Shadows will be in a much better place in 1.4.

Quote: Originally Posted by metalfenix View Post
This sounds pretty at first..except when you are surrounded by adds, throw overlap and see the adds behind you laughing at best.
Honestly, if you lack the ability to move away from PvE mobs and turn and face them for the Knockback, then you should just delete yourself. It's really not hard. In fact, the change is better for endgame raiding because it gives the Player more control over the skill. Now you won't be incidentally breaking CC or haphazardly impacting targets that you didn't intend to hit. More control and precision in a skill is a good thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aikiyc View Post
Overload nerf isn't too much a big deal. 120 degrees in front is a pretty wide zone. And if you're mouse turning (like you're supposed to *coughcough*) then you're used to kite CCing and the like. With a buff to Force Speed, it all evens out, in my opinion.
Finally, someone that gets it. +Rep

Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
Honestly this "balance" is not very good over all for most classes. Very little has been done to change the fact marauders/sentinels and powertech/vanguard are still the only viable dps pvp specs.
Exactly. Because those classes are actually balanced based on BW's metrics. Instead of nerfing classes like the QQing bads would want, BW is buffing the classes that need it. This is the better way to balance, although the Merc/Commando DPS ACs still need more love based on the proposed notes.

And the whole balance discussion is just a crutch for baddies anyway. This is an MMO. Classes will wax and wane with each new update. Believe it or not, BW knows the PvP metrics better than we or you do. They can easily identify when a class is performing outside of the norm and will bring them back in line, as they have in the past. A lot of what you think is overpowered is really just L2P QQ because players lack skills and knowledge about other classes.
Alphanoob, Alpha-zen (among others) - Garbage S1 Champion
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CadaKai's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 12:05 PM | #419
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post

I'm not a huge fan of the Force Wave/Overload change, but I welcome it and understand the need. Why? Firstly, because it will now require some skill to use. Yes, apparently turning and facing your opponent requires skill in this game. lol
It has nothing to do with skill of turning and facing your enemies. the issue is when you get swarmed as a sage/sorcerer the mobs circle you. Cant exactly knock them all back and escape when you can only hit the ones in a 120 degree arc.
I see based on your sig that this will not affect you, and you have not dealt with it in game. you are being Obtuse

xorv's Avatar

09.05.2012 , 12:06 PM | #420
Quote: Originally Posted by Russkiier View Post
I don't understand what the big deal is about the stun-range nerfs. The only reason a ranged class needs a stun is to prevent a melee player from getting up in their face. At 10 meters, the ranged class is still out of melee range (except for ravage...), and can still stun/run away.

Additionally, with sorcs, the overload change isn't that big a deal. Back up, overload, turn around and run away. Besides as a sorc, you shouldn't be in the middle of a melee anyways, as an assassion, you have a lot more mobility (plus reduced force speed CD).

Lastly, can someone explain to me how these changes mess up PvE?
To me, they don't seem to be changing DPS or HPS or mitigation, but just CCing and running away.
oO Oh I don't maybe to provide CC, by the time something is at 10m it's effectively in melee range.
"should"/"shouldn't" is a interesting set of words. certain mobs shouldn't agrom from the other side of the map yet they can-
anyway a circular ***** slap had more utility than a con (less chance to mis due to factors outside your control) "Back up, overload, turn around and run away."
Exactly the problem with the change some situations backing up isn't a optimal solution running chould be...