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Recount


uniz's Avatar


uniz
08.31.2012 , 05:29 AM | #11
it isnt needed. if the boss dies what else matters. you have self combat logs to help determine if it doesnt.

too many people are clueless on how to use a parse constructively. its main use is ego gratification and to belittle others. a few do know what they are doing. most of you don't and never will.

if people use their deagro and or learn to play there is no need for a threat meter. problem is none or not many of the dps do. i know i have pugged hms with the worse of you and know what the animations are. you don't use them.

there have been several threads on this subject already. search is your friend here. this horse has already taken a good beating. please give it a rest.

Salips's Avatar


Salips
08.31.2012 , 07:15 AM | #12
No, this feature isn't necessary BUT, adding this as an option to people who wants recount (and many other things) is good idea? Game, MUST give many different options for everyone. In my (and many others) opinion SWtOR isn't, everything comes really too late, (Legacy, Group finder), and thats one of many reasons, why game is dying and goin F2P. Everything is too late. Im not trolling and hating. Just want the best for this game. Yeah i know, don't like it, don't play. And what if i love Star Wars and want to play, and BW isn't doing anything to keep me buying preps?
May the Force be with you.

Codek's Avatar


Codek
08.31.2012 , 07:55 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Salips View Post
No, this feature isn't necessary BUT, adding this as an option to people who wants recount (and many other things) is good idea? Game, MUST give many different options for everyone. In my (and many others) opinion SWtOR isn't, everything comes really too late, (Legacy, Group finder), and thats one of many reasons, why game is dying and goin F2P. Everything is too late. Im not trolling and hating. Just want the best for this game. Yeah i know, don't like it, don't play. And what if i love Star Wars and want to play, and BW isn't doing anything to keep me buying preps?
uh.... they did give us the option. They gave us a way to save the logs which many raiders do in fact use to their advantage.

No choice is what we had at release where it was nearly impossible to total your DPS from a fight unless you recorded the fight and painstakingly added up all the flying text from the recording.
~Codek

Salips's Avatar


Salips
08.31.2012 , 08:04 AM | #14
My PC is more than 4 year old crap, and i never login without Game booster. Soooo goin to windows and back is really slow process. Like 2-3 minutes.
May the Force be with you.

DSafana's Avatar


DSafana
08.31.2012 , 08:10 AM | #15
I would just like to see in my own combat chat channel. My own Combat messages. This really helps real time knowing that for example-all adds are smacking on you . Instead all I see is red damage on screen and die.
It would also be useful to see the damage done to your target real time with mitigation numbers. Maybe then I could optimize my attacks against something that mitigates 90 % weapon damage. It would also be helpful to determine what exactly caused you to die other than the last hit for 100 points.
I really don't need to see the DPS of others during real time. As long as we don't hit enrage timers , I don't care if DPS 1 is 100 DPS better than DPS 2.

Codek's Avatar


Codek
08.31.2012 , 08:34 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by DSafana View Post
I would just like to see in my own combat chat channel. My own Combat messages. This really helps real time knowing that for example-all adds are smacking on you . Instead all I see is red damage on screen and die.
It would also be useful to see the damage done to your target real time with mitigation numbers. Maybe then I could optimize my attacks against something that mitigates 90 % weapon damage. It would also be helpful to determine what exactly caused you to die other than the last hit for 100 points.
I really don't need to see the DPS of others during real time. As long as we don't hit enrage timers , I don't care if DPS 1 is 100 DPS better than DPS 2.
I agree that the combat message system is incredibly weak, but that just forces me to be that much more aware of what is going on in the game. I would say to just push yourself to start moving your eyes around the screen more to get more awareness on what is taking place within the fights. One of the biggest pitfalls that many raiders have fallen into recently is that they focus their eyes solely on their cast bars or buff list to optimize themself. Next thing they know is that they are one of the special people who can never seem to stay out of fire while it's chasing them down on the move.

If you are dying and don't know why, the last thing you should ask is for the game to tell tell you what you did wrong. as a gamer you should be able to solve these dilemma's yourself by applying skills and knowledge to solve the problem.

For the second point, very rarely will it be possible to adjust your characters ability to DPS while in combat. A good indicator that your DPS is low is also the numbers flying above the boss. If you are seeing 50's and 60's when you should be hitting for 5k and 6k, you know you are missing something.

I have an installed DPS meter with overlay and as a healer, I used to adjust my play style to maximize my number outputs. The Toth and Zorn fight, I realized if I stand with the melee DPS and spam my AoE heal, then my healing output overall was increased drastically. I was also placing myself to take more damage which did nothing but lead me to risk dying because my health was never topped off.

Meters really do make people play dumb just to get a slight edge for no reason. I've seen DPSers skip on threat drops to get in an extra ability, never cleanse, occasionally take hits to finish a cast, and push bosses to the edge of transitions (often to far) when DPS needs to hold off.

They are a great tool for perfecting your skill but to have it easily accessible all the time just leads people down the wrong path of playstyle. To have 3rd party tools that are a bit clumsy and require to be manually turned on simply encourages players to not use it as a crutch but as a tool like it should be.

(I wrote way more then I intended....)
~Codek

DSafana's Avatar


DSafana
08.31.2012 , 09:00 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
. I've seen DPSers skip on threat drops to get in an extra ability,
If you've seen DPS do this for the reason you state, You need to correct them. Threat drop does not affect Global cooldown.( It's like a stim or clicky) It can be used anytime it's up without sacrificing any abilities on GCD.

I believe that games should give you as much information as they can about your personal combat experience. There are quite a few people capable of digesting , analyzing and reacting to that information in real time without compromising their performance. Hiding the details of the damage you are taking or giving is not beneficial. I have combat damage spam overlapping on my screen so much on my screen that I'd get (more useful) information from a combat chat list. It also makes it easier directly following a death to see just *** happened, so I can improve.

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
08.31.2012 , 02:39 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by DSafana View Post
I would just like to see in my own combat chat channel. My own Combat messages. This really helps real time knowing that for example-all adds are smacking on you . Instead all I see is red damage on screen and die.
It would also be useful to see the damage done to your target real time with mitigation numbers. Maybe then I could optimize my attacks against something that mitigates 90 % weapon damage. It would also be helpful to determine what exactly caused you to die other than the last hit for 100 points.
I really don't need to see the DPS of others during real time. As long as we don't hit enrage timers , I don't care if DPS 1 is 100 DPS better than DPS 2.
You can create your own tab in the chat and customize what is visible in it.

I like having a meter to how I'm doing on healing mainly just as a personal check. It's also very helpful to tell how much damage people are taking and from where. This way you can make sure everyone is avoiding all the damage that they can.
<FREE UGLY> - POT5 - <SUPER BADS>
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Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
08.31.2012 , 03:56 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Vankris View Post
Can it be abused? Sadly yes. But more often than not, the abuse is somewhat justified.
I'm sorry, but I have an objection. Abuse is never justified. If having parsed logs or a recount causes a group leader to treat group members abusively, then it is not worth having. Criticism may be merited, but it can be conveyed constructively. To say abuse is justified in some cases is like saying it's okay to beat your wife when she has it coming.

People are meeting the challeges of group content with the tools they have. Combat logging seems a reasonable compromise to me. Recount-type in-game tools are used abusively, however, by many MMO players and it's nothing I want in my game.

Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
09.03.2012 , 03:33 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
I'm sorry, but I have an objection. Abuse is never justified. If having parsed logs or a recount causes a group leader to treat group members abusively, then it is not worth having. Criticism may be merited, but it can be conveyed constructively. To say abuse is justified in some cases is like saying it's okay to beat your wife when she has it coming.

People are meeting the challeges of group content with the tools they have. Combat logging seems a reasonable compromise to me. Recount-type in-game tools are used abusively, however, by many MMO players and it's nothing I want in my game.
Maybe, i somewhat mispoke. I didn't mean it's ok to abuse, under any circonstances of course.

There is a saying, in my country. There isn't smoke without fire. If someone calls you on your perfermance being under what's expected for the encounter, that probably because your performance is actually under what is expected for the encounter.

You naturally take the point of view of the underperforming player that would be remove (with or without abuse) from the group, poor thing. What about the feeling and right to happyness of the 7 or 15 other people in operation with him, that keep on wiping and wiping, don't they deserve at least some consideration, or they are destined to submit to the tyrany of the underperforming casual that shall not be abused (remove from group).

There is always 2 sides of a story.
Shadow | Kinetic Combat