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Consular PvE low DPS and other issues?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Consular PvE low DPS and other issues?

PPAlien's Avatar


PPAlien
10.17.2012 , 11:16 PM | #31
LuciferinDNA, I've followed your other thread and seen your posts one about consulars. Read what I'm about to write carefully as I am going to state some facts, and they are facts because they are based on my extensive usage of my main, which is a Consular Shadow in Balance skill spec who has been 50 since May. Your comments about the consular dps being crap is unfounded conjecture based on an inability to play the class properly (easy enough if you research and have a think about it).

My shadow is currently parsing over 1600 on the dummy (I have logs to post if you want proof) and there are still improvements I can see to be made to my ability usage (ie. not refreshing dots too early). Ignoring these improvements which I estimate to be in the order of 50-100 dps increase. I need to obtain my lvl 61 main and offhands (currently 58). This has been shown (not estimated, Shown) to increase dps by around 100 on a dummy. This would put my dummy dps at around 1700.

Now take into account that you have no inspiration (sentinels) and no armor debuff (bunch of other classes). When you gain these 2 things in a raid, over 5minutes, your dps will be at or above that of the other classes. With the added benefit, that your dots keep your sustained dps up constantly when moving and you have zero channelled abilities to get interrupted.

Basically, the shadow dps is not in trouble at all. Sage..maybe, not sure. But shadows have excellent dps and people need to realise that if they aren't hitting those numbers (which with really good players on good computers are above mine by a fair margin) they either are not geared properly, or, they aren't playing the class properly.

In summary...
Stop posting about crap dps. It doesn't even matter because it will change over time anyway!

PPAlien's Avatar


PPAlien
10.17.2012 , 11:23 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by scionofhorus View Post
Commando DPS caps out at around 1400 or so, so your sentinels are probably pretty bad.
You could not be more wrong, commandos capping at 1400. Maybe in columi gear, even then that's low.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
10.18.2012 , 02:24 AM | #33
The Shadow Balance tree parses right there with Sentinels and Gunslingers. It is one of the best DPS specs in the game.

Sages have a more legitimate beef. My sage is in optimized BH/campaign gear and I parse around 1600 on the dummy. I'm between 1300 and 1700 on boss encounters, depending on the boss and the mechanic.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
10.18.2012 , 02:35 AM | #34
I am not a big numbers pusher so I've been reading this thread mostly as passenger so far. I just find it curious that I never really felt like being an an inferior damage dealer as an infiltration shadow. Recently I've been mostly doing Tier 1 Hard Modes and Dailies to gain access Black Hole commendation and switch from a mix of Columi and Rakata gear I still have from bein in a raiding guild for a while to Black Hole gear, and assemble a second set of Columi gear to be able to switch my spec to tanking on Columi level.

In the past few days, since I have equipped every single piece of equipment with an Advanced Resolve Augment, I rather have the feeling I outdamage most others on those flashpoints, even when I am not using stims at all (and I usually do use at least NPC vendor stims in team content, since I kinda feel I owe it to my team to do my best, even if 90% is enough). During ongoing fights the tanks lost agro to me several times, in some instances when I did use stims I had to use Force Cloak and focus for a moment on tactical abilities to give the tank a chance to get agro back.

However, reading to this thread and the suggestions I read hear I should be insanely weak and not even worth engaging in PvE. You can see my stats in the following screenshots for my infeltration shadow. It includes the four class buffs and a normal, NPC vendor Superior Resolve Stim (Willpower +60). For serious content I would of course buy exotech stims (Willpower +123) which would give me another 63 Willpower and boost it above 2000.

http://imageshack.us/a/img716/9414/ausetstats.png

I know many people suggest to raise willpower no higher than 1600 and start investing in power after that because it gives slightly more damage, but I just love to see high scores in willpower and love to have a high crit rating, because as infiltration shadow I benefit from crits greatly. A point in willpower gives 100 points in power are 23 bonus damage, 100 points in willpower are modified to 105 by the class buff and result in 21 bonus damage and a slight increase of crit rating in the range of 0.0063 per point - i.e. 100 willpower raise the crit rating percentage by 0.63. Given that infiltration shadows benefit from crits I think that's a viable choice, investing in power would raise the overall damage only on a marginal level - we're taking about 20 points of bonus damage more for 1000 points invested in power instead of willpower (again, calculating in the class buff and effectively assuming 1050 willpower).

I like to have a high accuracy and actually wanted to raise it to 98.5% - 99% because I just hate to miss. When I solo the Belsavis dailies (I don't stealth them, I usually kill them all, better money/time turnout) and a low slash misses in the wrong moment it can be the death of me. Overall it may not make such a big difference if you miss every 20th blow (95% accuracy) or every 25th blow (96% accuracy) but I prefer to be precise.

I am not anywhere near the 900 bonus damage suggested earlier and that really sounds a little utopic to me unless I was on full campaign gear. (But if I was ono full campaign gear I would likely not play the character anymore.) I don't have the +10 on all datacron but that wouldn't make that much of a difference. 10 strength and 10 willpower adds four points bonus damage...

And yet, I simply don't feel weak...

My clairvoyant strikes usually hit for ... I think 2000 - 3000 (I usually focus on the fight itself, it's important to me to maintain a tactical overview and not just fire my rotation, and ignore the numbers on the screen, last time I did Collicoid War Game in Hard Mode the death of the final enemy completely surprised me, since I was so focused on keeping an eye on everyone's health, keeping my rotation up, watching out for the floor based effects and keeping an eye on how the tank is fairing in case I have to take over, that the death of the enemy completely surprised me. I could have sworn he was at 40% health when he died.). I don't remember a project hitting for less than 4000 recently, and it's not uncommon the hit for something in the range of 6500.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Truescopes's Avatar


Truescopes
10.18.2012 , 02:49 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
The Shadow Balance tree parses right there with Sentinels and Gunslingers. It is one of the best DPS specs in the game.

Sages have a more legitimate beef. My sage is in optimized BH/campaign gear and I parse around 1600 on the dummy. I'm between 1300 and 1700 on boss encounters, depending on the boss and the mechanic.
They do? I've never seen a parse from a shadow at around 2,000 dps on the dummy, if you know of any I'd like to see. Also sages should be 1,800+ in bh/campaign on the dummy.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
10.18.2012 , 03:04 AM | #36
I am curious how those dummies work, never seen one. Can you adjust their armor rating, for example?
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
10.18.2012 , 04:52 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by PPAlien View Post
LuciferinDNA, I've followed your other thread and seen your posts one about consulars. Read what I'm about to write carefully as I am going to state some facts, and they are facts because they are based on my extensive usage of my main, which is a Consular Shadow in Balance skill spec who has been 50 since May. Your comments about the consular dps being crap is unfounded conjecture based on an inability to play the class properly (easy enough if you research and have a think about it).

My shadow is currently parsing over 1600 on the dummy (I have logs to post if you want proof) and there are still improvements I can see to be made to my ability usage (ie. not refreshing dots too early). Ignoring these improvements which I estimate to be in the order of 50-100 dps increase. I need to obtain my lvl 61 main and offhands (currently 58). This has been shown (not estimated, Shown) to increase dps by around 100 on a dummy. This would put my dummy dps at around 1700.

Now take into account that you have no inspiration (sentinels) and no armor debuff (bunch of other classes). When you gain these 2 things in a raid, over 5minutes, your dps will be at or above that of the other classes. With the added benefit, that your dots keep your sustained dps up constantly when moving and you have zero channelled abilities to get interrupted.

Basically, the shadow dps is not in trouble at all. Sage..maybe, not sure. But shadows have excellent dps and people need to realise that if they aren't hitting those numbers (which with really good players on good computers are above mine by a fair margin) they either are not geared properly, or, they aren't playing the class properly.

In summary...
Stop posting about crap dps. It doesn't even matter because it will change over time anyway!
Thanks for your post and your suggestions!
I use Balance till Adjudication with combat spec, in this way, what I mentioned in another thread :
"I focused on put 22 points to Kinetic combat, till "Harmessed Shadows" for a little self heal and my other goal was to use spinning kicks out of stealth by "stasis". Then I use balance tree till adjudication to have +50% crit dmg from double strike, what I use a lot for "Particle Acceleration" for crit project what I combined with "Force Potency" when "Harmessed Shadows" has 3 stacks (so project first, till its insta with critic + 50% + 50% from upheaval(if I have luck, )) then TT till its uninterruptible with 3 stack"
I can bring out the most dps from this combo (my reached 50 4 weeks after the launch, but I made some pauses)

I don't use dummy I get my experiences from FPs, rides, WZ and open world pvp. I see clearly, that if a sent/guardian/gunslinger - dps team ride with us in a FP, the same boss group goes down in half time then if we would have just Shadow, Sage -dps. In WS balance tree don't works, just if you kite all the time and stay in background (quite hard with 4-10 m range) if the enemy focus on you, you don't have 15-20 sec till your dots finish there ticks)

By the way, some droids are immune to internal dmg? or I mix something up now? : )

RGMetal's Avatar


RGMetal
10.18.2012 , 06:03 AM | #38
Really, the few times I ran full Balance spec for raids we had no problems. I'd like to try out Infiltration, but I'm a much better tank. LOL

Toshirou / Ichíro / Keiichi / Kusanagí / Verdandí
Shíro / Míka / Fayé / Jubeí

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
10.18.2012 , 07:23 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
Thanks for your post and your suggestions!
I use Balance till Adjudication with combat spec, in this way, what I mentioned in another thread :
"I focused on put 22 points to Kinetic combat, till "Harmessed Shadows" for a little self heal and my other goal was to use spinning kicks out of stealth by "stasis". Then I use balance tree till adjudication to have +50% crit dmg from double strike, what I use a lot for "Particle Acceleration" for crit project what I combined with "Force Potency" when "Harmessed Shadows" has 3 stacks (so project first, till its insta with critic + 50% + 50% from upheaval(if I have luck, )) then TT till its uninterruptible with 3 stack"
I can bring out the most dps from this combo (my reached 50 4 weeks after the launch, but I made some pauses)

I don't use dummy I get my experiences from FPs, rides, WZ and open world pvp. I see clearly, that if a sent/guardian/gunslinger - dps team ride with us in a FP, the same boss group goes down in half time then if we would have just Shadow, Sage -dps. In WS balance tree don't works, just if you kite all the time and stay in background (quite hard with 4-10 m range) if the enemy focus on you, you don't have 15-20 sec till your dots finish there ticks)

By the way, some droids are immune to internal dmg? or I mix something up now? : )
Nice pvp build, it has no bearing whatsoever at all on pve and how to dps.

Please just stop posting, sages and shadows are fine.There is nothign wrong with not being the top dogs. Being in the middle is ideal and doesn't result in massive swings of the buff/nerf bat,

I am honestly sick to death with hearing how bad x,y,z class is, especially when its from people who honestly have no clue *** they're doing.

I have never ever felt that my dps has dragged my ops group down, and that was in HM EC prior to augments being readily available.

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
10.18.2012 , 08:50 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Karasuko View Post
Nice pvp build, it has no bearing whatsoever at all on pve and how to dps.

Please just stop posting, sages and shadows are fine.There is nothign wrong with not being the top dogs. Being in the middle is ideal and doesn't result in massive swings of the buff/nerf bat,

I am honestly sick to death with hearing how bad x,y,z class is, especially when its from people who honestly have no clue *** they're doing.

I have never ever felt that my dps has dragged my ops group down, and that was in HM EC prior to augments being readily available.
Sorry friend I won't stop posting, till a subscriber I'm allowed to use the forum, react to threads and share my opinion, till its not against the rules.
Any way, I never asked you to stop posting about "sages and shadows are fine" Its your opinion and I respect it.

By the way, I see you have 4 lvl 50 characters, what char of your has the most pve/pvp commendation, best gear sett? I am just curious.

Peace!