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HM Zorn and Torn without boss switching


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
08.29.2012 , 10:10 AM | #1
I hope to get some input on this strat. My group tried this last night and it seemed to be a good idea at first, but we didn't pull it off. Most of our failures were due to avoidable mistakes, so we could iron out the mistakes and continue with this strat, or go back to the boss swap strat.

It went like this:

1. 2 Ranged dps on Zorn at 29.5 meters
2. 2 Melee dps on Toth
3. At 90/70/50/30/10 ranged step back so as to not get fearful.
5. Toth jumps.
4. Tanks taunt and then they run to the opposite sides, leaving the drouks in the same positions.
5. Melee stay on Toth
6. Ranged step forward and resume attacking Zorn

Because the melee are always on Toth they don't get the fearful debuff. Because the ranged can step back they don't get it either.

The theory behind this strat was to increase dps uptime on the bosses, though as I mentioned, we weren't quite able to succeed. That said, most of our wipes were due to stupid stuff like someone getting killed by the red circles at 60/40. So once we get coordinated, it is possible this strat could work.

Any input would be welcome.

CitizenFry's Avatar


CitizenFry
08.29.2012 , 10:24 AM | #2
That's the default strategy most groups use for HM Zorn and Toth. So yes, it works.
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Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
08.29.2012 , 10:32 AM | #3
Indeed - this is how we have been killing them since week 1 with our 16 man raid (so 5 rdps and 5 melee, rest is the same).

We have more recently put together a second raid group that does it and 8 man and found it much easier to have that group switch for some reason (so having Z+T switch places).

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
08.29.2012 , 11:54 AM | #4
Thank you very much, this is good to know.

I have a couple of additional questions.

I've alternately heard that fearful debuff is received by players within 25m of Toth, 30m of Toth, 25m of Zorn and 30m of Zorn. I've been assuming that 30m of Zorn is the correct version, but I'm not 100% certain.

HOWEVER, the jump doesn't always happen right at 90/70/50/30/10, sometimes there is a delay. So I've gotten in the habit of hitting 70% (for example), stepping back out of range and waiting for the jump. Sometimes I've had to wait 15-20 seconds for the jump to happen and that's a lot of no-DPS, which is bad.

How is this generally handled in the "stay on Zorn" strat?

The other problem we ran into is that the melee dps are taking a bunch of damage during the jump/pounce stage. We've tried having them stay in it and keep dpsing, and we've had them try running out then leap back in. The former makes the healer's job easier, but the latter means that Toth starts falling behind on DPS.

Any suggestions here?

DSafana's Avatar


DSafana
08.29.2012 , 12:28 PM | #5
With the strategy you are using your problems don't occur.
The Melee DPS are always on Toth, since He always jumps to Zorn. The melee should never get the debuff unless they attack ZORN. And even if the melee gets the debuff, they aren't switching to attack Zorn so they can continue attacking Toth with the debuff. The debuff only reflects damage back when you attack Zorn. melee doesn't ever have to move from the Toth tanking spot, as long as Toth is in their range they are free to attack.
This is why it's the default tactic. Now if you have all melee DPS and no ranged, you'll have to change to another tactic, which involves boss switching during jumps.

The Toth bounce damage has to be soaked up, good time for defensive cooldowns on the melee dps. Also a good idea to have a GOOD AOE healer on Toth.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
08.29.2012 , 12:55 PM | #6
DSafana, thanks.

In terms of Fearful, I was referring to ranged. Two of our wipes happened when the ranged dps got Fearful (I was one of them). I was between 25m and 30m of Zorn at the time.

When I move back to beyond 30m, I can't dps as I'm out of range. If Toth jumps right an schedule, everything is fine. But the longer he waits to jump, the less dps I'm doing. I'm not sure how close to the wire I can cut it. Is Fearful cast the moment Toth jumps? Right before? Right after?

It seems hitting the health percentage, moving back and waiting is the safest bet, but I'm worried about enrage if we have too much dps downtime.

KingofGob's Avatar


KingofGob
08.29.2012 , 01:26 PM | #7
My guild has actually only done it where the tanks stay in the same spots the whole time and the bosses switch where they are standing. We find it's much easier to stay at the very exacting distances required in the fight. The ranged group is always on zorn and the melee group is always on toth. We found that the drouks end up with less stacks this way too.

Dacce's Avatar


Dacce
08.29.2012 , 06:53 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
DSafana, thanks.

In terms of Fearful, I was referring to ranged. Two of our wipes happened when the ranged dps got Fearful (I was one of them). I was between 25m and 30m of Zorn at the time.

When I move back to beyond 30m, I can't dps as I'm out of range. If Toth jumps right an schedule, everything is fine. But the longer he waits to jump, the less dps I'm doing. I'm not sure how close to the wire I can cut it. Is Fearful cast the moment Toth jumps? Right before? Right after?

It seems hitting the health percentage, moving back and waiting is the safest bet, but I'm worried about enrage if we have too much dps downtime.
Fearful has a 28m range. so if you keep yourself outside of 28m, and within 30m you will always be able to dps. the issue is, whe the tanks are switching targets, Zorn moves around a bit so you have to keep watching your distances.
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Sounders_Fan's Avatar


Sounders_Fan
08.29.2012 , 09:59 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I've alternately heard that fearful debuff is received by players within 25m of Toth, 30m of Toth, 25m of Zorn and 30m of Zorn. I've been assuming that 30m of Zorn is the correct version, but I'm not 100% certain.
Based on my guild observations; it is 25m radius from where Toth lands. we have had ranged get fearfull at 25+ meters from zorn but toth lands towards them and is with in the 25m range. Could be wrong; we never actually set out to confrim it; we just assume to be 25+ meters from the closer one to them.
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chaosme's Avatar


chaosme
08.29.2012 , 10:14 PM | #10
The radius of the fearful effect starts from the position where Toth lands after he leaps. So if your range dps were positioned such that they were within the effect radius of Toth's landing spot, they will end up getting fearful.