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An in-depth look at: Revan


Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
08.25.2012 , 11:46 AM | #1
I have wanted to post something like this for a while now, so here it is. Before I start I would like to clear up a few things. First, while this may seem like an anti-Revan thread, it is not. I actually like Revan, but I also understand that he is not the alpha and omega of Star Wars. Second, this thread is meant to inform those who may not know exactly what was going on before, during, and after KOTOR. I will also attempt to clear up some of Revan's abilities on the battlefield, as well as in single combat.

*WARNING* Revanites will find this thread to be heresy against their lord and master and should click off this thread immediately.

So let's begin. Apologies if this is long, which it will be. As well as apologies for any spoilers.

Let's look at his combat abilities first. So many Revanites will say that he mastered every lightsaber form, which he did not. Revan never mastered any Lightsaber form. He may have been proficient in their usage, but nothing close to mastering them. They will also say that he mastered both Light and Dark sides of the Force. He did not. He used both of them. The Light as a Jedi, Dark as a Sith. After becoming reborn, Revan stuck to the Light Side, but fell back on the Dark Side when under heavy stress. They will also say that he could use both sides at once. No he can't. Doing so goes against every G-Canon source stating that you cannot.

So now we move on to Revan's actions.
Revan stepped onto the galactic stage during the Mandalore wars. Disobeying the Jedi Council, Revan took several Jedi Knights and Masters with him to lead the Republic against the Mandalorians. The tactics employed by the Mandalorians confused Revan. The Republic couldn't really counter their savage attacks. So Revan decides upon using the Mandalorians tactics against them. With his superior forces, Revan was able to outplay the Mandalorians and beat them at their own game at the final battle of Malachor V.

What he does next is shocking however. After the war, Revan finds out that the Jedi Council was correct. The wise masters saw the Sith Empire lurking in the unknown. But Revan couldn't let them know he was wrong. So he takes Malak with him to defeat this Sith Emperor. Full of themselves and their power, Revan and Malak confront the Sith Emperor. But they could never comprehend the power that the Emperor had at his command. The Emperor easily turns them to the Dark Side and sends them to find the Star Forge. The Emperor planned to speed up his invasion by using the Star Forge to quickly build his armada. But upon seeing the power of the Forge, Revan and Malak use the Forge for their own gains and attack the Republic. Catching them unawares, they bring many Jedi and Republic war heroes to their side. With the Republic still in shock, Revan leads a crusade that takes countless lives before the Republic could do anything to stop them. Even when they tried, Revan was able to counter their tactics after spending time serving with them during the Mandalore wars. Eventually, Revan is lured into a trap and is captured by Bastila Shan. The Council reprogams him with a new identity. Those who played KOTOR will know what happens next so I will skip to the end.

Revan's destruction of the Star Forge returned him to hero status. But Revan's journey wasn't complete. Returning to the Unknown Regions, this time with Meetra Surik, Revan battles the Emperor again. And again, he is beaten. The Emperor then captures Revan and siphons his power. The only thing keeping Revan alive is Meetra Surik's spirit. But even she could not stop Revan's dive into insanity. Upon Revan's release, Revan travels to the Foundry to enact a plan to kill 97% of Imperial citizens. This includes citizens of imperial conquered worlds. Countless lives would be destroyed, innocent lives. Naturally, the Empire stops him by sending their finest servants to defeat him. Revan could not hope to stand against the Empire's finest. But what happened to Revan? Did he die? Or did he use fold space to escape? I believe he died and the explosion was merely his spirit leaving his body in similar fashion to Palpatines death, though not as grand.

So what did Revan do exactly? Nothing really.
He defeated the Mandalorians, that's his only helpful accomplishment. The rest of his actions were either destructive or to fix his mess.
Had he not gone into the unknown regions, Revan would never have attacked the Republic. Had he not attacked the Republic, the Republic would have had a much more powerful defensive force to defeat the returning Sith Empire. Failed to see the real threat and the galaxy paid for it.

Revan is a tragic hero who did more harm than good in the long run. That's my opinion.
I apologize for the post being so long and for any spoilers.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

MyDarkSunshine's Avatar


MyDarkSunshine
08.25.2012 , 12:50 PM | #2
Bet you never guessed that I'd show up here. More surprising perhaps is that I agree with you on most points.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
What he does next is shocking however. After the war, Revan finds out that the Jedi Council was correct. The wise masters saw the Sith Empire lurking in the unknown. But Revan couldn't let them know he was wrong.
Interesting take... Might I ask though, what has given you this interpretation of events? The Masters, based on what I remember from talking to Bastila, sensed a darkness more dangerous than the Mandalorians, and received bad omens in regards to Jedi involvement in the war. But nothing ever suggested they knew that it was lurking in Unknown Space, that it was a Sith Empire, or that it was ever anything other than Revan falling to the darkside and dragging his followers with him.

Nor does anything I remember suggest Revan went off to fight the Emperor because he refused to admit he was wrong; I was under the impression that he discovered the Empire, and in his arrogance believed himself to be the person in the galaxy most capable of defeating this new threat.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
With the Republic still in shock, Revan leads a crusade that takes countless lives before the Republic could do anything to stop them. Even when they tried, Revan was able to counter their tactics after spending time serving with them during the Mandalore wars.
Worth mentioning that some (such as G0-T0) believed Revan's intentions were to forge the Republic into something stronger, to counter a greater threat. However this is merely semantics as a) he failed, and b) he waged war with no regard for life, civilian or otherwise.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
The Emperor then captures Revan and siphons his power. The only thing keeping Revan alive is Meetra Surik's spirit. But even she could not stop Revan's dive into insanity.
During this time Revan manages one of his few successes. Delaying the war (without knowing the Emperor's original schedule, it is impossible to say for how long), and pushing the Emperor to the Treaty of Coruscant.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
So what did Revan do exactly? Nothing really.
He defeated the Mandalorians, that's his only helpful accomplishment. The rest of his actions were either destructive or to fix his mess.
Had he not gone into the unknown regions, Revan would never have attacked the Republic. Had he not attacked the Republic, the Republic would have had a much more powerful defensive force to defeat the returning Sith Empire. Failed to see the real threat and the galaxy paid for it.
:- He defeated the Mandalorians and delayed the Empire's return; both of which came at great cost.
:- His obsession with defeating the Emperor/Empire led to all of his other goals (such as fortifying the Republic, whether it be under its own rule or the banner of his own Sith Empire) failing.
:- He perceived the true threat but reacted very poorly to it.

His actions may yet have made the difference in the Republic's fight against the Empire, but this is mainly due to the actions of others (which were effected by his presence), and unintentional side effects of his own attempts;

Spoiler

Although of course, these are hardly to his credit.
"Who I am is not important- my message is." Revan

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
08.25.2012 , 01:02 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by MyDarkSunshine View Post
Bet you never guessed that I'd show up here. More surprising perhaps is that I agree with you on most points.



Interesting take... Might I ask though, what has given you this interpretation of events? The Masters, based on what I remember from talking to Bastila, sensed a darkness more dangerous than the Mandalorians, and received bad omens in regards to Jedi involvement in the war. But nothing ever suggested they knew that it was lurking in Unknown Space, that it was a Sith Empire, or that it was ever anything other than Revan falling to the darkside and dragging his followers with him.

Nor does anything I remember suggest Revan went off to fight the Emperor because he refused to admit he was wrong; I was under the impression that he discovered the Empire, and in his arrogance believed himself to be the person in the galaxy most capable of defeating this new threat.



Worth mentioning some (such as G0-T0) believed Revan's intentions were to forge the Republic into something stronger, to counter a greater threat. However this is merely semantics as a) he failed, and b) he waged war with no regard for life, civilian or otherwise.



During this time Revan manages one of his few successes. Delaying the war (without knowing the Emperor's original schedule, it is impossible to say for how long), and pushing the Emperor to the Treaty of Coruscant.



:- He defeated the Mandalorians and delayed the Empire's return; both of which came at great cost.
:- His obsession with defeating the Emperor/Empire led to all of his other goals (such as fortifying the Republic, whether it be under its own rule or the banner of his own Sith Empire) failing.
:- He perceived the true threat but reacted very poorly to it.

His actions may yet have made the difference in the Republic's fight against the Empire, but this is mainly due to the actions of others (which were effected by his presence), and unintentional side effects of his own attempts;

Spoiler

Although of course, these are hardly to his credit.
1.The masters knew something was lurking. While they didn't see the Sith Empire, they knew that something darker was out there. Revan found out and didn't want to hear the masters say I told you so. So he went to defeat this Emperor, and failed.

2. Good intentions do not make up for commiting evil acts. Revan destroyed the lives of countless innocents. Carths family is included. While Revan didn't order the attack on Telos, his actions allowed it to happen.

3. Revan only fought back the Emperor's mental assault with the help of Meetra Surik. I doubt Revan could manipulate the Emperor alone.

Revan reacted to every galaxy threatening situation very poorly. I consider the Mandalore wars to be the most beneficial thing he did for the Republic. The rest only helped the Sith Empire.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Newyankalt's Avatar


Newyankalt
08.25.2012 , 03:57 PM | #4
Yeah maybe revan destroyed lives but so did vader not only did he destroy many lived he destroyed a planet, all the Jedi, many children But in the end he was redeemed to the light. Vader makes revans acts look like child play.Vader often went against council he was married like revan. He thought with his saber first. And one good act after 20 years of evil made up for everything.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
08.25.2012 , 04:05 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Newyankalt View Post
Yeah maybe revan destroyed lives but so did vader not only did he destroy many lived he destroyed a planet, all the Jedi, many children But in the end he was redeemed to the light. Vader makes revans acts look like child play.
Who even mentioned Darth Vader?

Lharrulk's Avatar


Lharrulk
08.25.2012 , 04:07 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Who even mentioned Darth Vader?
Who says he can't mention Vader?

Newyankalt's Avatar


Newyankalt
08.25.2012 , 04:07 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Who even mentioned Darth Vader?
I'm just saying if the Jedi obi wan and yodA forgave vader after all his evil. Why wouldn't the Jedi forgive revan the Jedi always believe someone can be brought to good again.

Newyankalt's Avatar


Newyankalt
08.25.2012 , 04:11 PM | #8
Just noticed my argument was kinda supposed to be made for the revan in jail post sorry about that.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
08.25.2012 , 04:14 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Lharrulk View Post
Who says he can't mention Vader?
Vader has nothing to do with the topic.

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
08.25.2012 , 04:15 PM | #10
Point of order: Revan never actually delayed the Empire's return, he just made them revert back to their originally scheduled invasion.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
I don't need luck, I've got ammo - Urdnot Grunt
Remember 4/22/2011. A day that shall live in infamy.