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PSA for "mdps" LFG spammers


grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
08.24.2012 , 08:00 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
Usually have a healer and 1 dps dedicated to doing the buttons, while the other 3 dps are on the bottom with 100% uptime. Carnage marauders and concealment operatives are the best dps to use to click buttons due to the faster in-combat run speed.

Sorry for derailing the original topic, but half of the crap that is being said is just bad information being spread about.
If you're using 2 players on the puzzle its easier if they both have a short CD knockback. Sage/Commando being my preferences since they can heal/dps from up top as well. Having 3 up top (2 ranged and a healer) is noticably faster. Fabricator should be getting burned again before he gets more than 3 or 4 armour stacks and the DPS can still contribute.

But the point is that having a melee up top means they aren't dpsing the boss at all. Hence, having ranged is an advantage. Yes it can be done with all melee. Yes it is noticeably easier with ranged. That is the point, ranged is always easier than melee and the easier/less involved strategies for LI, EC, KP rely on having rDPS specifically.

Yes some melee CLASSES are better than some ranged CLASSES. But that does not make melee preferable over (or even as easy as) ranged.

RiseOfDeath's Avatar


RiseOfDeath
08.24.2012 , 11:47 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
The differences in fights for mdps and rdps are not that severe if the other players in the group are competent.
^ This!

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We had to switch some people around on Wednesday for HM EC, and as a result we had 4 melee dps (oh no!). We did wipe twice on Zorn and Toth, which we normally always one-shot. The only reason it took that long was because of the healers being unaccustomed to the 4 melee dps, and the two melee dps on Zorn being unaccustomed to being on zorn and getting fearful (me being one of them, I switched to dps, my offspec, to dps instead of normally tanking).

After having some practice, I'm certain we could one-shot Zorn and Toth with all melee dps next time. We just needed some practice.

We had more dps that normal it seemed (noticed for certain as we were DPSing the walker on Kephess), and the rest of the raid after Zorn and Toth was easy.
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For Lost Island, sure the first boss might be a bit more hectic with melee dps, but that's part of the fun. I always run HM LI with 2 melee dps, and we always one shot everything. It's not overly difficult with good players.

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I think that while melee dps may be harder to run with than ranged dps, once your melee dpsers know their classes well and know what to expect, and the healers know what to expect damage-wise, you'll be putting out more dps than with ranged dps, will run into no problems (as you do with decent ranged dps most of the time), and will have more mobile dps that perform better than ranged dps in fights where mobility is king.
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
08.25.2012 , 10:25 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
Fabricator is harder with all melee DPS because your puzzle solvers can't contribute DPS on the boss.

...
As ranged, I usually run the puzzle up top and don't contribute to dps until the last burn below 20%. We used to have one of the tanks do it, but we found it easier to do the tank swap rather than forcing the healers to deal with too many stacks of armor debuff.

So a melee dps could do exactly the same thing as I do, and join the fight after the last burn.

JWillets's Avatar


JWillets
08.25.2012 , 10:54 AM | #24
I have to agree with the OP. Honestly, i think melee dps have some of the highest dps output by far. Especially mara's and ive seen 2-3 amazing jugg dps, assassins/operatives here and there but nothing incredible, and maybe 1 PT. But thats the trade off though, you cant have your cake and eat it too. They have a much higher chance of taking aoe damage (hence why i think the BH/Camp armorings sometimes have more end than mainstat for them).

but really it all comes down to how well that person is with their mdps. If the mdps is smart and has the fights down, theyre golden. But like every class and role, some people are just scrubs and are terrible with their toons. rdps is some insurance against that. That being said, I usually tank and I f'ing hate tanking LR5 Droid in LI HM with 1 or 2 mdps. Ive done it more than a few times successfully but it really boils down to them and the healer being on point (especially with helping me interrupt incinerate when moving him around since he roots for a second) which is sometimes not the case.

Anyways, yeah they prolly shouldnt be spamming mdps in chat unless they're a mara and add that in with it since people can be dumb.

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
08.25.2012 , 02:24 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by JWillets View Post
That being said, I usually tank and I f'ing hate tanking LR5 Droid in LI HM with 1 or 2 mdps. Ive done it more than a few times successfully but it really boils down to them and the healer being on point (especially with helping me interrupt incinerate when moving him around since he roots for a second) which is sometimes not the case.
So it's melee fault that you use a bad strat, that makes the content harder then what it needs to be?

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
08.26.2012 , 03:32 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
So it's melee fault that you use a bad strat, that makes the content harder then what it needs to be?
No, it's melee's fault that a new strat is required.

Again: All content CAN be done with ALL melee DPS. HOWEVER it requires more coordination and typing LFG in chat isn't likely to be a run with guildies who all use Vent. Coordination overcomes the weaknesses of melee but PUGs aren't usually coordinated.

I have no issues running content with all melee DPS IF I know the players and they are good. PUGs provide an unknown and I don't want to risk repeated wiping and wasting of my time on an unknown when I could get a rDPS and have to worry about that less.

Ranged vs Melee is very much like Geared vs Ungeared. It's possible to do it, ranged (or geared) just gives you more margin for error. PUGs are all about having the biggest margin for error.

magi_melcior's Avatar


magi_melcior
08.26.2012 , 05:37 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Powerrmongerr View Post

PVP I don't know why you would play a mdps that isn't a marauder/sentinel.
Ok feel the need to step in there in defense of Jedi Shadows (and Sith Assasins) these guys rock in PvP (I know my main Alt is a Shadow!). A good mix of ranged and Melee attacks, AoE Knock Back, force speed, Stealth, force pull, limited self healing, 3 CCs and 2 CC breakers (well the 2nd doesn't break, but it does provide some protection against CCs and debuffs), heck we even get Guard and Taunts and a couple of defensive CDs so we can semi Tank if we need to, probably the most adaptable class in the game IMHO
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Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
08.26.2012 , 05:44 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by magi_melcior View Post
Ok feel the need to step in there in defense of Jedi Shadows (and Sith Assasins) these guys rock in PvP (I know my main Alt is a Shadow!). A good mix of ranged and Melee attacks, AoE Knock Back, force speed, Stealth, force pull, limited self healing, 3 CCs and 2 CC breakers (well the 2nd doesn't break, but it does provide some protection against CCs and debuffs), heck we even get Guard and Taunts and a couple of defensive CDs so we can semi Tank if we need to, probably the most adaptable class in the game IMHO
The Shadows who PvP are mainly hybrid tanks, not MDPS. MDPS Shadows would be Infilitration and Balance, who are mostly absent from competitive play (because the tank hybrid vastly outperforms them).
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LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
08.27.2012 , 10:52 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
So it's melee fault that you use a bad strat, that makes the content harder then what it needs to be?
Just to clarify, your point is that the tank should still stay in the middle and use perfect positioning? Viable, but pretty hard for average players.

Really your whole argument that the content is easy so who cares is pretty lame and elitist. Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it's easy for everyone.

The whole point of this off-topic side-thread is that there are a ton of fights where having ranged is somewhat to significantly easier, mechanics wise, but no fights where melee is easier. That's a big imbalance.
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LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
08.27.2012 , 10:57 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by RiseOfDeath View Post
After having some practice, I'm certain we could one-shot Zorn and Toth with all melee dps next time. We just needed some practice.
Melee dps can swap after Toth leaps, so no one is attacking Zorn with fearful. Okay, no biggie. However, melee classes that rely on DoT damage have to forego using those attacks on Zorn when Toth is getting ready to leap. Ranged need not worry.
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.