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PSA for "mdps" LFG spammers


ViciousFett's Avatar


ViciousFett
08.23.2012 , 12:54 PM | #1
The term "rdps" was created because ranged dps is preferable in most operation/flash point situations, especially when in a pug. The reason for this is it's often easier to tank and heal when the dps aren't getting hit with AOE damage from bosses. (see LR-5 or Heavy Fabricator). This isn't to say melee classes are bad, in fact marauder assassin and powertech(and their republic counterparts) can out dps the rest, but it usually makes for a smoother run without them.

Having said that, it's a bit of a mystery to me why people have now taken to spamming general chat with "mdps LFG" etc. I appreciate your honesty, but you should know that isn't helping you find a group.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
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Datku's Avatar


Datku
08.23.2012 , 01:28 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by ViciousFett View Post

Having said that, it's a bit of a mystery to me why people have now taken to spamming general chat with "mdps LFG" etc. I appreciate your honesty, but you should know that isn't helping you find a group.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

Not always. In some cases a mdps is actually preferred to a rdps. Seen many times when ops are forming that they specifically look for mdps like Marauders for example in EC. Actually you can even do the first fight there Toth and Zorn with all melee if they are smart and swap targets like the tanks do regarding the fearfull debuff. I can name 3 times in the last two weeks where I posted DPS lfg NMKP or SM/HM EC and got nothing but as soon as I said mdps (mara) LFG NMKP or SM/HM EC I got an invite within seconds.

As you say now you know that some situations mpds is sought after or even preferred.
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Powerrmongerr's Avatar


Powerrmongerr
08.23.2012 , 01:42 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Datku View Post
Not always. In some cases a mdps is actually preferred to a rdps. Seen many times when ops are forming that they specifically look for mdps like Marauders for example in EC. Actually you can even do the first fight there Toth and Zorn with all melee if they are smart and swap targets like the tanks do regarding the fearfull debuff. I can name 3 times in the last two weeks where I posted DPS lfg NMKP or SM/HM EC and got nothing but as soon as I said mdps (mara) LFG NMKP or SM/HM EC I got an invite within seconds.

As you say now you know that some situations mpds is sought after or even preferred.
You need to take marauders out of the equation. They are the only mdps class where the damage output, defensive cooldowns, and group utility (bloodthirst) outweigh the tremendous disadvantages mdps face in almost all end game contexts. If you were a dps assassin, operative, or juggernaut instead your desirability would plummet immensely.

Here's a rundown:

EV

Annhilation Droid: mdps have it mildly more difficult

Gharj: mdps have it moderately more difficult

Pylons: no real difference

Council: no real difference

Soa: mdps have it mildly more difficult due to the need to move for lightning balls, phase transitions, and having to move to target mindtraps

KP

Bonetrasher: moderately more difficult for mdps due to positioning requirements

Gharj/Sorno: significantly more difficult for mdps if they are on Jarg, irrelevant if on Sorno

Foreman Crusher: irrelevant as far as I know

Fabricator: significantly more difficult for mdps

Karagga: depending on skill of tank, mildly more difficult for mdps, or significantly more difficult

LOST ISLAND HM

LR5 Sentinel: Severely more difficult for mdps. A straight-up mechanic check for tank and all mdps to complete

Sav-Raak: intended to be more difficult for rdps, but actually is not.

Dr. Lorrick: moderately to severely more difficult for mdps depending on skill of tank

WORLD BOSS

Nightmare Pilgrim: who knows as constant griefing makes completing this world boss on super servers well nigh impossible. I'm guessing it's harder on melee dps as it fits the trend

DENOVA:

Zorn/Toth: Murderously more difficult for melee dps as it comes to Zorn (basically impossible on hardmode). As to Toth, mildly to moderately more difficult.

Tanks: Largely irrelevant so long as a healer can handle the "ground floor" duties. If they cannot, having one too many melee dps is unmanageable.

Minefield/Vorgath: mildly more difficult, but not a big deal

Kephess: depending on party makeup, significantly harder or mildly harder. If bombardier isn't getting pulled to party, or if Kephess tanking isn't perfect, melee dps has problems with positioning and/or aoe effects.

PVP I don't know why you would play a mdps that isn't a marauder/sentinel.

SUMMARY: This is a very bad state of affairs. I do not see why, given the choice, I would ever bring melee dps to anything ... well, maybe one marauder/sentinel for bloodthirst. Not only is basically all of the end game content more difficult for mdps to varying degrees, they get NOTHING to compensate for it. They aren't more survivable (in many cases, they are less survivable), they don't do more damage, they don't have more utility, nothing.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
08.23.2012 , 01:43 PM | #4
Yeah our group did NIM KP last night with only one rDPS. First time I have ever got placed on Jarg with my shadow, but it really wasn't a problem. Just have to be smart enough to get out of the fire. We even finished Jarg faster than the two way better and bettered geared mDPS players on Sorno.

As a healer I personally love mDPS. They are right there together on most boss fights, very easy to just keep above 90%. I also know they are going to take damage. rDPS is more like me, when they take a big hit it is somewhat of a surprise since usually they can get out of the AOE and don't. Only thing I hate about mDPS is that force leap. Not kidding every time I put down a big time consuming heal on a knight they leap out of range right before it finishes casting. So I have to run back into range.

Personally I would rather have smart players that pay attention and use cooldowns than worry about what class they are.

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
08.23.2012 , 01:55 PM | #5
The differences in fights for mdps and rdps are not that severe if the other players in the group are competent. I have learned to stay away from groups that exclude melee dps on the basis that they usually struggle with the most simplest mechanic checks in the game.

I can understand if the game actually had some hard encounters that something would need to be done to help out melee dps, but with the majority of content being rather simple and easy, i dont see any problem with them.

TL;DR: If a healer/tank cant compensate for a mdps in their grp they will most likely fail/struggle with something else in the instance.

Powerrmongerr's Avatar


Powerrmongerr
08.23.2012 , 02:01 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
The differences in fights for mdps and rdps are not that severe if the other players in the group are competent. I have learned to stay away from groups that exclude melee dps on the basis that they usually struggle with the most simplest mechanic checks in the game.

I can understand if the game actually had some hard encounters that something would need to be done to help out melee dps, but with the majority of content being rather simple and easy, i dont see any problem with them.

TL;DR: If a healer/tank cant compensate for a mdps in their grp they will most likely fail/struggle with something else in the instance.
What does any of that have to do with the point at hand? Either content "X" is harder for mdps, it is easier, or it is the same. The skill of the group in regards to mechanics, or the "majority of the content" being "simple and easy" has zero bearing on that analysis.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
08.23.2012 , 02:24 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Powerrmongerr View Post
Gharj/Sorno: significantly more difficult for mdps if they are on Jarg, irrelevant if on Sorno
So going back to to your last post, how is taking a couple steps backward on the AOE fire and modifying rotation to use Force Breach and Project at that time significantly more difficult? I would also point out, in our group at least the knights with leap and the shadows with force speed are the first ones to damage the Carbonizer Probe, Pig, Bombardier... I get annoyed when the tanks pull because mDPS is usually already there.

I pretty much disagree with you on everyone of your list except LR5 Sentinel and this is from a sawbones point of view not a shadow. Oh and on Firebrand and Stormcaller the healer should be kiting the lightning on anything above SM EC and on SM it doesn't really matter. Healer can do some DPS and Enrage isn't that big a deal (provided the group is a decent group).

Now I will not disagree that mDPS may make you slightly change your normal way of doing an Ops if you usually do it a certain way with rDPS, but that does not mean it is harder, just different. There are some very good mDPS players and there are some very good rDPS, limiting your group to one or the other just seems silly to me.

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
08.23.2012 , 02:30 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Powerrmongerr View Post
What does any of that have to do with the point at hand? Either content "X" is harder for mdps, it is easier, or it is the same. The skill of the group in regards to mechanics, or the "majority of the content" being "simple and easy" has zero bearing on that analysis.
The skill of the group in regards to mechanics play a major role in how "hard or easy" say content is for a mdps.

Let take a look at the droid in LI, the tank fails to understand positioning and how to kite the mob around the metal square in the center, the fight becomes far harder, and requires a much more messier kiting around the room.

Look at Lorrick, if the tank positions him in just a single spot, and doesnt allow themselves enough room to kite him away from the green circles, you will end up in a situation where the mdps wont be able to dps, or will have to take avoidable damage.

On a side note if the majority of the content is simple and easy, it really doesnt matter if a Mdps, takes 5% more damage then a rdps, or require an additional cure that a rdps wouldnt of needed...Yes it may be more taxxing, but when other things are not taxxing at all, it doesnt matter.

Mosfett's Avatar


Mosfett
08.23.2012 , 02:48 PM | #9
As a healer, i prefer rdps to mdps only because of the extra damage i have to heal when we bring a mdps to a fight. On Zorn and Toth for exemple, if u have melee(s) on Toth, they take his aoe damage and if they manage to move out of it, we lose dps while they move. Or the first boss in LI HM, the tank has to move a lot more when mdps are present. Also, rdps can usually swap target faster then mdps. There is plenty of other exemple where i would prefer a rdps to a mdps.

But in the end, ive done EC HM with a few mdps, ive done LI HM with 2 mdps... it is no doubt still possible, but in my opinion having mdps does makes some fights harder. I dont think anyone can argue with that.

I am not a pro dps, since i mostly tank or heal, but i think it take more skill to be a good mdps vs being a good rdps (high dmg output with low dmg received).

Keii's Avatar


Keii
08.23.2012 , 03:31 PM | #10
MMORPGs have been crapping on Melee for as long as I can remember.