I Am All For Pay To Win, Are You?

^This.

I don't give a fig about customizations, pets, mounts- I'll likely even spend my Coins on those things myself.

But the very second this game goes P2W: unsub.

P2W is for ppl who have no skill, every1 knows this.....

paying a sub is not P2W, yes you get unlimited pvp, but you dont get stat boosts and better gear,
that would be p2w.

There will be no flying mounts for 2 reasons :
A) would invalidate the routes taken to get certain crons
B) they dont want you to be able to fly anywhere like in Wow, as the swtor world isnt seamless,
ie they dont want you going to places you're not supposed to, like the underneath of Nar Shaddaa for eg

as for the posts going on abt seeing IV in the 70s (dunno why they even mentioning it..)
I saw Star Wars at the cinema, the only reason it mentions episode 4 is cos of the BOOK,
the first 3 chapters were dropped from the film (they involve luke on Tat, with Fixer, wedge, cammie etc
real sw fans know this.

id pay for vanity items,or perhaps faster leveling.but:leveling fast doesnt teach people how to play,or have things to do at max level..

if someone can "buy" gear thats bis....that pretty much imbalances skill vs gear.i could handle doing warzones against someone lvl 50 and im a 10,but if hes using stims bought his gear and isnt in a pug,skill goes out the window.

for me the game was ruined when ilum was accidently fixed,and broken .the lvls i earned and gear i grinded was surpassed in a day.for me its all about skilz,not the gear you have.what you ask will have costs.imagine you want to join a guild.they say omg your gimp you dont have any o that new gear came out last month.only costs 25$ ou poor?no guild 4 u.that sound good?

First of all, I do not have anyone in particular in mind for my person A and person B. Personally, my sniper is basically best in slot except for PvP relics because I don't PvP, and I'm not really interested in leveling more characters except as crafting alts.

That being said, lets get to my responses.

Why are you marginalizing the work that person B is doing? Just because it isn't in the game doesn't make it not important. If he wants to take the work he's been rewarded for, and translate that external reward into a reward from SW:TOR, why is he demonized for doing so? Letting him do that is in no way penalizing person A, as person A's rewards are still there and he was still willing to put in the time he did to obtain them. If the price cost and time cost aren't equivalent then there may be an issue, but thats beyond this discussion.

So subscriptions aren't pay to win, they are commit to win? Does that mean we should only let six month subscribers access to Terror from Beyond for the first few months its out, since they're the most committed? How is someone who has spent $30 in the cash shop this month less committed than a one month subscriber who has cancelled and is riding out their final 29 days? Should we strip gear from people who complain on the forums, since they're clearly not supportive enough to deserve it? This idea that only people who've proven their support for the game should get the best rewards is a dangerous one and probably more damaging to the game's health than pay to win ever could be. And again, letting people pay a one time cash fee for the same rewards as the people paying cash monthly is in no way a penalty to the subscibers but an alternative means of advancement.

My argument isn't letting people without the time or cash to play competitively. My argument is that people without the time but with the cash should have a chance.

This hyperbole is really unnecessary. Especially since you've hade to misunderstad my position to justify using it.

Experience indicates that very few players actually quit when they add items to the cash shop that affect gameplay. I'm not going to argue that point with anyone, I'm just putting it out there because it's the truth.

"Pay to Win" is a loaded term. There's a thousand + definitions and no one agrees.

I find it a little strange that there seems to be a high value on an unemployed junkie who plays a lot has some how earnt his gear cause he got it in game. Where as someone who has a job and a family and can't invest the same amount of time but purchases similar gear is a scum bag who is ruining the game.

Pay to Win is a way of getting money out of people that are willing to pay and fund the games development just to get gear that people with more free time can get in game. Would I pay fifteen quid for some black hole gear that I can get in game. It depends if the 15 bucks is woth more or less than the time it takes repeating the content to earn it in game. Its a convenience where because of work I don't want to have to run 100 black hole weeklies or whatever but want to try out opps that without the gear I'm just a burden.

Would I pay 15 bucks for a different looking speeder or pet. No. Unless it goes faster or BW make the game far more sand box like, standing around with a black Ark dog isn't important to me. Lets face it two seconds after seeing the new look of the pet it wont make the grind of black hole or campaign gear any nicer. Would I pay for purple level 1 to 48 gear, no cause it will quickly become useless. So why spend cash on something moments later would be either worthless or pointless. So I think BW will have to offer either unique options like flying mounts or Pay to Cut out End Game grind or they will have trouble selling lots to fund the development.

Can I QQ for you a little?

Personally I like earning items in game, it's part of what makes it fun for me. Not that I have a huge objection to people buying the same items I guess, but it kinda depends. I mean lets say it takes me months of doing dailies or something to earn gear needed to do some raid/PvP/whatever content, and someone else pays like $40 and gets the stuff the very first day.

So like I know we're both in the same gear and everything in the end, but if very few people are interested in doing the content by the time I earn my gear (old content is so old...) my months of dailies were a waste. It's kinda like you were betrayed by a hidden P2W system, which can almost be worse in my mind.

I mean, I know its a grey area and all, but still I'm not sure that would be much fun; well just a thought. :\

As far as PvP goes, if they actually made skill > gear in 50 pvp, I don't think anyone would mind P2W.

It's a design fault, not a P2W thing. If all PvP was like 1-49, would you honestly care?

Not just No.
HELL NO!

Paying for extra customization, and not for something to speed up the process of different parts wont work too well.

If I am going to spend money in the cash shop it would be to make my experience more fun ofc, but for me that would be focusing on the content that I would want to do.

So fast exp gains. The game is designed with rest exp and that is the problem. Some people do not like to play alts at the same time as playing other characters so they dont have rest to spread out with alts, while others play enough to play with rest exp gains that make the lvling quicker for the spread out times that they do play their game.

So even though the game encourages and rewards people to play less by giving them rest exp, the rest exp should be something that can be added on top of the legacy perk and allow for others to play more at the same pace of a fast lvling experience.

Also gear. If someone wants to buy gear for themselves, then they should be able to. Earning is fun, but also earning the real money to buy the item makes it valuable as well. Its peoples time, and how they would like to spend it.

Is it fair to expect people in a pvp environment to farm comms to get WH gear just to begin to be able to play at the style that they want? Only with the right gear will a person truly be able to experiment with specs and see what works for them without the gear imbalance affecting the learning curve as well.

So buying gear is not pay to win, its pay to play... actually. Since before getting the gear a person is barely playing and getting gear which apparently people enjoy the process of being the small fry in an environment that is the same skill wise with only a few WZ's but the gear difference is a matter of being king in shining armor or a peon in rags. So the environment is also limiting to set up a gear grind making it more of hassle when there should be ways to play that does not remind a person of thier gear disadvantage every-time they see another player.

edit: Then the problem of lvling alts to get WH gear for them. BW needs to set up legacy pvp gear and all the accumulated time spent in pvp for all the characters unlocks legacy items for a price when reached at a certain lvl. Since expecting a person to get WH gear for more than one character, and then on top of that remind the player that an expansion will tell the player that they have to get more gear just to be able to play the game competitively, is too much. It becomes too much of a hassle. It kills the fun of the game since 8v8 is very gear dependent. Its fun, but expecting people to do that over and over again for alts and for expansions is a lot of work for them to begin to play at an equal level and try specs as well.