I Am All For Pay To Win, Are You?

Yes, I have unsubbed. I made this clear in my original post here. What might make me re-sub will be the P2W items on my list, if they are priced reasonably.

Meanwhile, I will be playing GW2.

As long as there is another realistic way of getting the P2W items (grinding for example), I have no problems with it. I spent some money on P2W in other MMO's but these are usually improvements of my Quality of Life instead of the "LOLIWIN"-button.

You want to spend 300 dollars on War Hero gear? fine, go ahead. But I need to be able to match that gear by spending more time in it.

It's the trifecta "skill-time-money". Very few have all three. Those with less time, can use money and skill to cope with that. Those without skill can make up the difference (gearwise) with time and or money. and those without money can cope by learning more (time + skill)...

The playing field is about in game skill not real world resources. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to achieve in game goals you don't deserve the reward. What you are suggesting is tantamount to buying a medel of honor. You didn't put in the sacrifice, the training, nor did you enter into harms way. You don't deserve the reward.

You are engaging in reductio ad absurdum. This doesn't merrit a response.

Addressed in my first response. But will state again: You didn't put in the sacrifice (time), you don't have the training ( know how to play your class as well as someone who has more time and experience ( unless you are a MMORPG vet ) ) to warrent the same rewards.

When I state that attitudes about buying success without effort not only bring down gaming but everything else in life to a state of mediocrity at best and a stinking dung heap at worste, I am not engaging in hyperbole. It merrits a discussion in this context because our secular progressive western world no longer values hard work or excellence. Everything from the media to western education systems to the state are screaming mediocrity and dependance rather than that of excellence and independance. This poisonouos mind set has insidiously crept into the collective gestalt in much the same way as puttting a frog in a pot of water and slowly turning up the heat. This cycle needs to be broken before the water boils. This striving for fairness is a ruse and a distraction. In a world where everyone is special, no one is. Paying to win is much in this mind set as to rewarding mediocrity instead of excellence. Paying to win is not a leveling or normalizing mechanism. Paying to win devalues all those that put in the time and effort to achieve the reward instead of "just buying it".

Agreed 100%
I am well over 40 years old and I work 10-12 hrs a day on a swing shift (4 days on day shift ,2 days off, 4 days on night shift,) and have done so for over 15 years, I am a father of 2 and a grandpa to 3 and soon to be 4. and still I have a level 50 here (+3 over lvl 40), 10 level 85's in wow, and still manage to put about 500 miles a week on my harley. So the "I work so I don't have time" excuse doesnt fly. If I can do it with my RL obligations anyone can.

I get so sick of folks crying "I pay 15.00 a month like everyone else, but i can only play 1 hr a week so its not fair they must give me epix lewtz too", or " They need to let me just buy a max level toon, and all the gears so I can be competitive". I say BEE ESS. Furthermore buying all the gears or max level doesn't buy skill, I got stuck with more than one person who bought their max level wow toon on ebay that had no idea how to play it.

It is what you do with your time in game. do you sit on the fleet the whole time and troll general? or do you look at your mission log and figure out the most efficent way to get them done with the least wasted time then execute? Do you run face first into every mob group and wast time killing way more than you have to, or avoid what mobs you can to get the objective done quickly?

For example I have the entire revanite chain on Drummond kass down to 25-30 min start to finish, and can complete all the dark temple quests in about 30 minutes as well. So in about 1 hr play time there is almost 2 plus levels of xp, an orange quest reward, a title, 2 datacrons, and a couple thousand credits. how much easier can you make it.

A MMO is a time sink, if you don't have the time to commit then a MMO may not be for you. ( maybe go play mario cart, or Monopoly).

Even if you play 1 hr a week or 1 hr a day, you can still get the gear, granted it will take longer to reach max level and max gear but you will eventually get there. so stop crying to have it handed to you.

It doesn't take that long in all honesty. Even with my busy RL schedule it took me 1 month to reach max level on my BH. It took me 2 days to max my professions, and doing all dalies, flashpoints over the past week has got me enough gear to start entry level OP's. Will I be the heaviest hiter in the op? NO I wont, but I will be there, and hopefully winning better gear to improve my performance for the next one.

P2W is just a cop out to cater to the lazy crybabies. I would probably not complain if they sold empty orange shells in the cash shop, BUT make mods and enhancements still have to be purchaced in game for comms that only come from quest rewards. so they will still have to do the work to make the shells useable.

Well said.

That is a lesser of two evils, it will still have an effect on the game if you allow people to buy gear that looks just like or better than gear from the end game operations. The reason is because one of the main reasons people chase gear is appearance, and if you give some noob with daddies platinum card a robe that looks exactly like one that a progression raider spent weeks of time and strategy to get you are going to lose players.

You can argue whether that is a stupid reason to play an mmo, what you cant argue is that you will lose alot of your games raiders, and despite the casuals always complaining about the "elitists" mmos do not thrive without them.

The community in LOTRO is one of the best I've ever encountered in any MMO. Unfortunately, F2P killed that game, especially the PvP with its P2W emphasis and the Build-A-Creep system. There is a ton of content, the best of which was created over four years ago, but the store has soiled the experience there and the community is the only thing keeping that game alive.

In fact, LOTRO is the perfect example of F2P gone wrong. Not only can you P2W to PvP, but you have to pay just to compete in any meaningful way (at least as a Creep). Additionally, the endgame raids and content are designed around the buffs in the store. It's not simply a P2W situation, but is content specifically designed to require players to buy buffs just to complete it. LOTRO was a wonderful game for about three years. Once the store took over, it became complete garbage and is just a shadow of its former self.


You need to reacquaint yourself with the LOTRO store then if you think stat tomes are the only P2W items there. It currently is a P2W paradise. Stat tomes, exclusive heal/power pots, special buffs, extra legacies for Legendary Items, and that's just PvE stuff. PvP is even worse, led by the Build-A-Creep system.

It's an utter farce and it's no wonder that nobody takes LOTRO seriously anymore. Playing that game is like playing in a commercial. I currently have 10K+ in Turbine Points that continue to amass on a monthly basis which I will never use because of the sell out that game has become.


So far, the official word I've heard on two separate occasions by Michael Bromberg (BW Austin General Manager) and Gabe Amantalego(sp?) [Lead PvP and Ops/FP Dev] is that the store will not have P2W items. Of course, the store hasn't been implemented in game yet so it's easy to say these things. High levels at BW have also lied to us in the past so take those comments for what they are worth.

At the same time, it always starts out this way; good intentions with an emphasis on "convenience, not advantage." Unfortunately, I haven't seen a game adopt F2P that didn't eventually sell out. We shall see if BW can navigate the slippery slope without turning the game into a complete joke.


You guys do realize that GW2 is starting out P2P/F2P and has the making of a true blue P2W game already right? Lol

The virtue of GW2 is that it's almost solely a PvP game made for PvPers. However, that's where the virtue ends.


No it isn't. This is a game. It is a form of entertainment. That's how EA/BW sees it. That's how they will treat it. Skill doesn't factor into the equation at all.

Pay to Win would make me quit.

It's a total pain in a free to get free to play game, I won't ever put up with Pay to Win in a game I've bought and subscribed to.

To just say NO seems like such a gross understatement.

Nothing but contempt for the P2W philosophy and the people who support it.

/Quote.