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def/shield/absorb


Fallerup's Avatar


Fallerup
11.02.2012 , 10:35 PM | #31
With Rakata stim and Dark ward my D/S/A looks like this (whole numbers only) 25/60/60... I'm told/have read that this is hard cap and that I only waste time and money getting more in any of these 3 areas. I'm also told, an assassin tank doesn't need more than 25K HP, which I also have (25.1K)... I still do not have augment in my MH weapon... so here is my question.. what augment should I put in?? I'm thinking more Hitpoints is never a bad idea, but the same would be said about willpower or power for more damage, hence more threat.

The thing is, I dont even wear the best gear. My best gear is black hole chest, rest is columni, rakata. I'm surprised I've reached what they call hard cap already... but yeah.. my question... what stat should I now aim for?
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OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
11.03.2012 , 04:57 PM | #32
There is no "hard cap" on tanking stats.
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BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
11.03.2012 , 05:38 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Fallerup View Post
With Rakata stim and Dark ward my D/S/A looks like this (whole numbers only) 25/60/60... I'm told/have read that this is hard cap and that I only waste time and money getting more in any of these 3 areas. I'm also told, an assassin tank doesn't need more than 25K HP, which I also have (25.1K)... I still do not have augment in my MH weapon... so here is my question.. what augment should I put in?? I'm thinking more Hitpoints is never a bad idea, but the same would be said about willpower or power for more damage, hence more threat.

The thing is, I dont even wear the best gear. My best gear is black hole chest, rest is columni, rakata. I'm surprised I've reached what they call hard cap already... but yeah.. my question... what stat should I now aim for?
Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever augment for endurance.

Ever.

Always get mitigation stats.

Also the "hard caps" are when you reach certain percentages from Ratings alone, not from Talents + Buffs + Offhand + Ratings.

Your absorb is fine, you should get more Defense and Shield though.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.04.2012 , 04:42 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
There is no "hard cap" on tanking stats.
Yes, there is. It's explicitly indicated by the DR curves. With an infinite amount of defense rating, shield rating, and absorb rating, a tank would get 30/50/50 contribution from rating alone (meaning a Shadow would have tank stats of 46%/90%/74%). Those numbers are only possible with an *infinite* amount, since that's the limit on the DR contributions curve. Anything shy of that (or shy of that within rounding errors) would only get within .01% of it.

The chances themselves have no distinct appreciable cap (the biggest buff of any kind is Resilience, which provides a 200% Resistance chance, so my best guess is that the cap is something like 255/256, though that's just because I like even numbers), but, even with buffs, they have functional caps (for Shadows, it would be 96/90/74 since the only ability other than Deflection that provides raw stats on a temporary basis is already factored in to the Shield rating).

It's best to say that there is no *realistic* hard cap on tank stats. The stat budget required to get to the hardcap is so phenomenally high is only has and only ever will be reached by developers playing around with debug tools or database errors. The relevant softcaps change with each new tier of gear, though, as hp is weighed against the new itemization budget to determine optimal survivability.
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Eternalnight's Avatar


Eternalnight
11.04.2012 , 04:04 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Yes, there is.
No there is not.
There are no hardcaps for these stats

Quote:
It's explicitly indicated by the DR curves. With an infinite amount of defense rating, shield rating, and absorb rating, a tank would get 30/50/50 contribution from rating alone
Yes, as you with infinite amount of ratings you would cap at those percentages gained from rating alone (not including percentages from other things).
However infinity is not achievable. Since you can literally keep increasing those stats forever and ever without ever reaching it, there is no hard cap for the ratings.
If anything, those percentages could be called theoretical caps.

A hard cap would be some finite amount of those stats after which they provide no further benefit at all. There is no such cap.

Eternalnight's Avatar


Eternalnight
11.04.2012 , 04:06 PM | #36
although technically it could still be said that there is a hardcap with finite amounts of those ratings, in the sense that your computer is not going to calculate or display those values with infinite amount of decimal places so everything will be rounded up to the nearest 0.01%, so once you are less than 0.01% away from the theoretical cap, you stop seeing any difference in the end result, but even that is not achievable with any gear that exists or ever could exist.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.04.2012 , 04:26 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Eternalnight View Post
No there is not.
There are no hardcaps for these stats
If you're referring specifically to stats rather than *contributions* from stats, I assure you that there *is* actually a hardcap. Programmatically, while it's possible to create a data type with functionally infinite size (accomplished by doubling its size whenever it needs to get larger and repeating until the size is large enough), that would require specific work to be put into making it behave as such, which is kinda pointless when you consider that, within any feasible realm of itemization, even a baseline "int" is going to be more than large enough (2^32-1, which is more than 2 billion).
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Fallerup's Avatar


Fallerup
11.05.2012 , 04:20 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever augment for endurance.

Ever.

Always get mitigation stats.
So... more shield and defense then?

this will put be above the 25/60/60 numbers that I read about. But according to some other site I read, the rato between shield and absorb should always be 2:1. So for every 2 shield, there should be 1 absorb. This was on a juggernaut site however, so it's not really relevant or what?
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.05.2012 , 08:35 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Fallerup View Post
So... more shield and defense then?
Yes.

Quote:
But according to some other site I read
When researching info on other sites, it behooves you to check out how old that information happens to be. At low gear levels, before DR starts normalizing the contributions of all of the various tank stats (which is where you're at now), there's a general equivalence ratio (4:2:1 for def:shield:abs) that reflects the comparative percentage gains provided by each source of mitigation. When you get into better gear, the DR curve renders that completely redundant as Defense is hit much more smoothly than Shield is and nowhere near as hard as Absorb is.

A good rule of thumb, aside from 27-30/65/60 for Shadow tank stats (Defense chance should either be ~27% or ~30% depending on whether you use the proc/use relics or passive relics, respectively) is that you want your various mitigation ratings to be roughly equal. While it's not entirely optimal, it's a good way to hedge your bets against the DR curves, and, rather than being specific to a single class, is largely applicable to all of the tank classes.
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OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
11.05.2012 , 09:01 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Yes, there is. It's explicitly indicated by the DR curves. With an infinite amount of defense rating, shield rating, and absorb rating, a tank would get 30/50/50 contribution from rating alone (meaning a Shadow would have tank stats of 46%/90%/74%). Those numbers are only possible with an *infinite* amount, since that's the limit on the DR contributions curve. Anything shy of that (or shy of that within rounding errors) would only get within .01% of it.

The chances themselves have no distinct appreciable cap (the biggest buff of any kind is Resilience, which provides a 200% Resistance chance, so my best guess is that the cap is something like 255/256, though that's just because I like even numbers), but, even with buffs, they have functional caps (for Shadows, it would be 96/90/74 since the only ability other than Deflection that provides raw stats on a temporary basis is already factored in to the Shield rating).

It's best to say that there is no *realistic* hard cap on tank stats. The stat budget required to get to the hardcap is so phenomenally high is only has and only ever will be reached by developers playing around with debug tools or database errors. The relevant softcaps change with each new tier of gear, though, as hp is weighed against the new itemization budget to determine optimal survivability.
Guess I should have included "attainable with any amount of gear you are ever likely to see in game" or "that you ever need to worry about" at the end of my post? Cause that is definitely what I meant.
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