Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

def/shield/absorb


Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
08.29.2012 , 12:24 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by alifaraaz View Post
Assassin: Not sure about this one
Shad/Sins should have roughly 30/60/60 def/shield/abs chances with KW/DW up.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Dhariq's Avatar


Dhariq
08.31.2012 , 03:17 PM | #12
This thread is in parts abysmal. How can you even discuss generic values on this?

First the percent you have on the character sheet have nothing to do with dr. Your rating determines that and different classes will have different values with the same rating.

Kithru above is atleast doing something but still that is way to generic since even something like switching in an absorb proc relic from a stat ones such as a pvp defense will shift optimal defense down and absorb way down.
Also those values are a to low for an end game tank. How on earth do you even get below 65% shield with dark ward up? Not even without set bonus can I even go so low.

An end game Sin (with pvp relics) should according to me be at roughly 450 defense, 670 shield and 670 absorb. By this he will be around 79% weapon/kinetic mitigation in a 4k incomming dps fight. If I used a absorb proc relic I would drop almost 20 defense, 90 absorb and then some change from shield. This will probably down my mitigation though slightly by something like 0.15.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
08.31.2012 , 03:38 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Dhariq View Post
First the percent you have on the character sheet have nothing to do with dr. Your rating determines that and different classes will have different values with the same rating.
Since most tanks use largely the same spec and set bonuses are standardized across all tiers of gear, we can easily make the assumption that pre-rating mitigation is identical. As such, indicating that the recommended mitigation percentages apply only to a specific class means that they are applicable since the only differences between values would be predicated upon differing mitigation ratings.

Quote:
Kithru above is atleast doing something but still that is way to generic since even something like switching in an absorb proc relic from a stat ones such as a pvp defense will shift optimal defense down and absorb way down.
The minor differences in ratings achieved by various tanks is covered by the adjective "roughly" that I used. The numbers aren't, nor do I think that they have ever been listed as, a definitive assignment of what the optimum stat allocation is. They are simply a guideline, and, as such, are allowed to be vague to account for variation within gearing levels and personal preference (such as using a proc relic rather than a PvP relic).
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Dhariq's Avatar


Dhariq
09.01.2012 , 07:38 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Since most tanks use largely the same spec and set bonuses are standardized across all tiers of gear, we can easily make the assumption that pre-rating mitigation is identical. As such, indicating that the recommended mitigation percentages apply only to a specific class means that they are applicable since the only differences between values would be predicated upon differing mitigation ratings.
You failed to see the problem then that started the thread in the first place. People talk about percentages without even caring what class. Also some replies here are talking percentages without even caring which class and well you can talk about standardized things all you want, it still don't make it true. The only time that ever apply is when you first divide the people into the three groups.
But threads like these keep people yapp about 25, 50, 50 and how it after that goes down etc. Blahblah.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The minor differences in ratings achieved by various tanks is covered by the adjective "roughly" that I used. The numbers aren't, nor do I think that they have ever been listed as, a definitive assignment of what the optimum stat allocation is. They are simply a guideline, and, as such, are allowed to be vague to account for variation within gearing levels and personal preference (such as using a proc relic rather than a PvP relic)
I see that point and seen those easy points flowing around alot but they are not correct to begin with.
With a full campaign budget: no matter what relics I use I would never go all the way up to 30% defense as a Sin tank. Highest would be 29% (shield/absorb click relic) and then downward depending on specific relics.
60% shield chance is not even end game gear. I would say 67.8 - 68% (with pvp relics) and then adjust for other relics.
Absorb should land around 62.3 - 62.8%, again with pvp relics. With absorb proc relic and 1 pvp it should however land at roughly 60%.

Nothing of what I just said is true for any other class. If I talked about a Juggernaut for example I would have started from almost 30% defense which is well over 100 more rating.

Docmal's Avatar


Docmal
09.02.2012 , 03:40 PM | #15
@Dhariq

How are you getting these ratings? You must be using the mitigation heavy mods and sacrificing endurance because I do not approach those stats.

I'm a shadow with modified campaign gear and full augments, and with an exotech stim i have:
454 defense (28.86%)
562 shield (65.41% with buff)
535 absorb (58.95%)
2362 endurance (26378 hp)

What is your endurance and hp at?

Dhariq's Avatar


Dhariq
09.03.2012 , 01:49 PM | #16
Yeah only at 24.6 k health with buffs. But I scanned months worth of logs with a small prog I coded and well I only need 24 k to not having a chance to be two shot. Perhaps I am lucky, what do I know, but it works for me. But well that is another discussion where I think that you always go for mitigation when you got enough hp and are not doing any progression raiding. When/If new content comes up I will ofc switch out some stuff to give people some room to look around and be headless chickens.

The really big gain btw is however the MK-3 Shield which is lightyears above the Campaign one with a whopping 47 more defensive stats at the cost of only 31 end. Also alot of people do not really seem to follow that 1-2% loss of mitigation will mean that you take 4-8% more damage roughly.

But the real point was that not even with the obscene amount of 1789 stat budget you never want to goto 30% defense as a Sin tank and that 60% shield chance is not even close to end game.

With your stat budget I would btw switch out a tad defense for absorbtion since at that budget anything below 60 is to low. Doing it will increase you mitigation slightly. One can ofc debate about dark ward beeing eaten up faster etc but that is only for adds and trash so that is no big issue anyway.

sankalp's Avatar


sankalp
09.16.2012 , 08:00 PM | #17
I have been looking for something like this.

I am a sin tank, atm have 24.x k hp, 30% def, 45 shield, and 51% absorb. at work rite now so cant give you exact ratings.

This is without the pvp relics. I am looking to buy one, but cannot decide if I should buy a defence one and then put those point into absorb, or should get an absorb one directly. having a 65% shield chance with dark ward seems to be good, but maybe getting a shield relic is the way to go.

what would you guys recommend.

Also, I found this very useful.

http://www.tankingtor.com/2012/07/sw...ear-guide.html

Dhariq's Avatar


Dhariq
09.17.2012 , 02:52 AM | #18
Not having any specifics here but I will give it a shot...
For your budget you are WAY to high in defense. You should have something like 4% lower with that budget and that should be switch directly for absorbtion.
I would suggest that you get 2 pvp relics with defense. Then you stack absorb mods and not defense ones. Then balance it all with augments. You want to land around the same defense you have (perhaps a tad lower), with an absorb increase of atleast 10% and a percent or two extra shield. This will be possible even with the battlemaster version of the imperiling serenity relic.

Mindsting's Avatar


Mindsting
09.17.2012 , 03:11 AM | #19
Shadow Tank here on Begeren Colony.

I've used an unorthodox build and it has gotten me through HM EC consistently just fine with no issues. This is a mix of mostly campaign (no MH/offhand). My theory (which I'm aware is not the most efficient nor anywhere close to the best out there) is to rely more on my self heals from tele throw and large pool of HP + decent defense chance to power through a fight. Each tick of telekinetic throw heals for 607. Combined with the Campaign healing relic every 20 seconds or so that's a decent amount of self heals I can put on myself. That's somewhere around a 3.3k heal per 3 stacks of harnessed shadows assuming Combat Technique procs twice and the healing relic procs. Even without that extra 443 heal that's a fairly decent number.

I figure on increasing my percentage heals since the hits I'm taking from the boss aren't getting exponentially bigger or anything. I realize I could probably be more effective if I swapped in PvP relics instead but I rather like that 30k number :P

Another thing I enjoy about having such a large pool of health is the 10% heal (3k instant medpack) from Battle Readiness. Essentially a 2nd medpack. Sure there are better ways to do it but there isn't any content yet and I doubt there ever will be that require perfectly tuned gear. Not to mention the attention you get from being that guy with 30k+ HP lol.

Once again, I do realize I take more damage but if it consistently works on the current "hardest content" who's to say it's wrong?

I really like your tanking calculator by the way! It's been more than helpful

Fully buffed/exo stim

HP: 30056
Damage Reduc: 40.03%
Defense Chance: 27.78%
Shield Chance w/o ward: 45.xx% (65% w/ward)
Shield Absorb w/o passive proc relic active: 43.xx% (61.xx% when passive relic procs)
Consular - 60 Shadow
Commando - 60 Commando
Agent - 60 Sniper
Also Smuggler/Vanguard/Sorcerer/Powertech (Character names)

*Retired* JediConsular on Twitch
Begeren Colony

Dhariq's Avatar


Dhariq
09.17.2012 , 04:17 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Mindsting View Post
Once again, I do realize I take more damage but if it consistently works on the current "hardest content" who's to say it's wrong?
YOU ARE WRONG! No seriously though, the only thing that would be wrong would be if you said that the hp gain would give you higher overall mitigation. The break point for that is way way lower than any raid content.

Quote: Originally Posted by Mindsting View Post
I really like your tanking calculator by the way! It's been more than helpful
Thanks.