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Quickshot is Useless


Exitusx's Avatar


Exitusx
08.13.2012 , 03:00 PM | #1
Sorry for the harsh words, but it was meant to get your attention. Please be aware this threat also applies to Agents as well, I just don't know the names of their abilities at this time. If the thread is misplaced and belongs in a different forum, I'll happily move it, just say so. Sorry for the wall of text, there is a TL;DR at the bottom, but this thread did take a bit of thought.

I won't lie and say that I am a pro scoundrel in pve or pvp. But after playing for a while, and understanding the core mechanics of the class (I main as a scrapper in pvp, dirty fighter in pve). I have received numerous tips from very gifted players as well as having outstanding conversations, and some debates, with them. One thing we did nearly agree on is the helpfulness of Quickshot, which it isn't. After talking to several Scrappers on my server, I have discovered that several of them have flat out removed Quickshot from their bar because there are better abilities they could be spending their energy on. Some people will disagree and still say it is a good move that hits pretty hard considering its energy cost, not as hard as other moves, but still. But I will have to ask back: How much better is it than a standard flurry of bolts? Well, if you look at the tooltip, and I assume you are a scrapper (meaning you get a few of the damage increasing talents for Quick Shot) it is about 50% more damage than a standard flurry of bolts, with about a third of the range. Some people will say it does slightly more or less damage than 50%, but please be aware this is a rough estimate, and is not meant to be a total number crunch, just enough to get a point across. In this case, this 50% can be somewhere between 300 to 500 extra damage depending on gear (this is for the tool tip, in game it would be lower depending on the expertise and resistance of the target). But let's look at the hard truth here:

You are spending 17 energy, which is sort of expensive, just to do somewhere between 300 - 500 extra white damage with a significantly decreased range, as opposed to other abilities that do significantly more as yellow (kinetic) damage. Example moves include Blaster Whip, Sucker Punch, Backblast, Vital Shot, Thermal Detonator (similar damage, but an aoe) etc, each doing AT LEAST double total damage of Flurry of Bolts at significantly lower or similar cost, with the exception of Vital Shot being 20 energy, but it's superior damage, armor penetration, and chance to proc certain moves (flying fists, wounding shots) more than makes up for it because IT STILL HAS A USE. You may wonder why I am making such an emphasis on energy cost. Well, our energy mechanic is INCREDIBLY PUNISHING if we don't watch our energy consumption. If we end up at 20 or less energy, we are going to be spending alot of time dancing around throwing flurries of bolts at players.

But the one thing that confuses is is that despite how unimportant Quick Shot is at later levels, BioWare STILL WANTS US TO USE IT. How Can I tell? Well, if you look at its tool tip, it clearly says "Fire both blasters while dual wielding" meaning they expect gunslingers to be using it at some point. There is a passive just for being a Scoundrel called Skirmisher, where it passively increases the damage of Quick Shot by 15%. If you look at the talent trees for either Gunslinger or Scoundrel, you will see SEVERAL talents that increase its damage, with Scrappy in the Scrapper tree being a small example. But the best talent for Quick Shot that I have seen is Hot Pursuit in the Saboteur tree for Gunslingers. It specifically says "Reduces the energy cost of Quick Shot by 100% for 6 seconds when exiting cover. This effect cannot occur more than once every 20 seconds." But unfortunately, not many Gunslingers go for Saboteur in either pve or pvp (I said not many, not "none at all" because I am sure there are some out there who use the tree and love it). But the point of me pointing out that talent is that it actually makes sense. It doesn't expect you to SPAM it, but rather makes it so if you are with close proximity of the target and you just exited cover, you can get off a significant damage increase as compared to Flurry of Bolts for no cost, getting that 300 - 500 damage boost for no cost at all.

What we need are more procs like Hot Pursuit for Quick Shot in order to bring it back. Because all of the scattered 4% damage increases aren't going to cut it, it is still a basically useless ability in its current state without that talent. IT COSTS TOO MUCH FOR TOO LITTLE. There some Smugglers/Agents out there who may still use Quick Shot as a finisher, when they know a basic attack won't kill a low health target, but they don't want to use a higher cooldown ability, so they opt for Quick Shot. But this particular situation is RARE at best, and may sometimes have you using it AGAIN if it doesn't kill them, through deflection or just lack of damage of the shot. Even if you are a Scoundrel, there are still better moves you can be using. You may see a low health target, but don't want to use the Cooldown on BackBlast to finish them off, you still have the option of using Blaster Whip. Is it on cooldown or have 2 charges of upper hand so you don't want to waste it? Use Sucker Punch instead. No charges of Upper Hand? THAT is when a Scoundrel MIGHT opt to use it, but this situation is so rare and has such a small time-frame that it doesn't help Quick Shot's case of being useful. I would give another hypothetical for Gunslingers, but I am still only leveling mine so I can't say what it is until he is 50.

We need a fix to Quick Shot. Not necessarily an increase in damage. We have plenty other moves that do damage, and we can get a pretty good rotation going after getting used to it. If anything we need more On-hit procs or effects such as Hot Pursuit. Most players use it as an execution move in rare situations, such as the one described above. Maybe we can give it some sort of effect when used on low health players. It can be an energy return, refunding energy when used on targets below a certain health %. Or maybe it can give the Scoundrel/Gunslinger a significant buff for using to actually using it to finish someone off, such as refreshing the Cooldown of several abilities, or just reducing them, or increasing the damage of the next ability by X amount. The possibilities are endless.

I want to see what the community has to say about this, and once I see it here, I should bring it to a more appropriate forum because this applies to Agents as well, I just don't know the names of their abilities. Plus I wasn't sure which forum to bring this to begin with. All I know is that Quick Shot isn't useful in it's current state. But BioWare has good tendency to at least try and EVERY MOVE useful in some way, so I firmly believe if we can get their full attention we can get some necessary change to it so we don't feel like Quick Shot is a major waste of energy.

TL;DR Quick shot isn't worth the energy we spend on it. It needs a change, not a necessary increase in damage. Maybe some sort of proc like Hot Pursuit in the Saboteur tree.

Daiyukie's Avatar


Daiyukie
08.13.2012 , 04:35 PM | #2
I would love to have a use for Series of Shots (or whatever that cover-only ability is) and Quick Shot as a Scrapper. It would fill some holes in our "rotation" that were left by the Backblast nerf.
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gentlepie's Avatar


gentlepie
08.13.2012 , 04:49 PM | #3
I find it useful, even as a healer operative. Yes it uses a lot of energy. But whether it be in PvP or PvE, it is handy as it is good damage, is instant, and has no CD. Most of the time it's to push out that little bit of extra, desperate damage when you have spare energy or your energy recovery CD up. There are definite uses for it, if you know when to use it and how to mix it in when other abilities are unavailable.

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Brool
08.13.2012 , 08:43 PM | #4
not useless to a sab.
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LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
08.13.2012 , 10:30 PM | #5
I generally agree with the OP. DPS Scoundrels already have quite a few very specialized abilities that they can't use very often:

Charged Burst (requires cover)
Sabotage Charge (requires cover)
Shoot First (requires stealth; usable maybe once in a boss fight, if you can get close enough or blow your Vanish)
Cheap Shot (useless vs. bosses)
Head Shot (useless vs. bosses)
plus 3 heals and a cleanse

As a Scrapper, I pretty much have only 4 special attacks used repeatedly:

Back-Blast
Blaster Whip
Sucker Punch
Vital Shot

Also Flechette Round, of course, which might as well be just a passive buff to Back Blast/Shoot First, but with the added nuisance of having to hit it manually every time.

Quick Shot would be a natural filler, but it really doesn't help, for reasons outlined pretty well in the OP (also the requirement of Accuracy, which none of the four attacks above need).

One fairly simple way to make the ability worth using would be to reduce the energy cost based on stacks of Upper Hand. Maybe 15 with 1 stack, and 13 with 2 stacks. Or 14/11. This would reward careful management of TUH to some extent. Even at a reduced cost, with the relatively moderate damage it would still be a filler attack.
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Exitusx's Avatar


Exitusx
08.14.2012 , 08:28 PM | #6
While even though it is the title of the thread, I don't find Quickshot actually "useless" I only said it to get the attention of a few people.

I do believe it has it's uses, but that doesn't change the fact that it has become somewhat punishing in situations where we don't use it right, and not too well rewarded if we do. As someone kindly pointed out, it useful when you want to pull off some desperate damage to kill someone but have the extra energy to do it. In which case, why not use a Blaster Whip? Well, one could say that it would then give you 2 charges of UH, and if you had any existing already it would be a waste. Well in that case, why not just use sucker punch? It does more damage, costs less energy, and killing the target would regrant the UH charge. The only reason one WOULD use it is to gain the next upper hand charge if you had 1 originally, then you would have 2, so you can walk up to the next target and nail him more times. But once again, this is a very rare situation and still becomes a bit punishing if it for some reason doesn't pull off, being a white attack and all.

But I don't want to see a flat energy cost reduction, although it would be something, or even a damage increase, because it isn't a move that is necessarily meant to do a ton of damage. One thing a friend pitched to me is that every now and then it can grant us a short speed buff, with scoundrels having some mobility issues and everything. He said Quickshot should make you "quicker" as a pun.

Exitusx's Avatar


Exitusx
08.14.2012 , 08:45 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Brool View Post
not useless to a sab.
Quote: Originally Posted by Exitusx View Post
But the best talent for Quick Shot that I have seen is Hot Pursuit in the Saboteur tree for Gunslingers. It specifically says "Reduces the energy cost of Quick Shot by 100% for 6 seconds when exiting cover. This effect cannot occur more than once every 20 seconds." But unfortunately, not many Gunslingers go for Saboteur in either pve or pvp (I said not many, not "none at all" because I am sure there are some out there who use the tree and love it).
I'm very well aware.

FourPawnBenoni's Avatar


FourPawnBenoni
08.14.2012 , 10:47 PM | #8
Yes this skill sucks, but not as useless as Blaster Volley is.

Exitusx's Avatar


Exitusx
08.15.2012 , 02:23 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by FourPawnBenoni View Post
Yes this skill sucks, but not as useless as Blaster Volley is.
I have to disagree, Blaster Volley is basically a slightly more damaging aoe quickshot, and is still useful to both scrappers, dirty fighters, as well as all gunslingers in operations and flashpoints for when they are trying to take out adds or mobs. I can honestly say I use Blaster Volley much more often than quickshot.
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Gassygunslinger
08.15.2012 , 05:30 PM | #10
It's as useless to a Scoundrel as Blaster Whip is to a Gunslinger.


As a Gunslinger, I find myself using it often when I'm on the move, action isn't a problem, and I'm up **** creek. Gunslingers get full 35 range with it as well.

But Blaster Whip? That thing you Scoundrels use all the time? Useless to me. Don't even bother with that crud.
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