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End Game Assassin Tank Def Stat Questions

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
End Game Assassin Tank Def Stat Questions

Malinok's Avatar


Malinok
08.13.2012 , 10:06 AM | #1
Good Afternoon,

I am looking for an Assassin tank who is full Rakata or better to contribute some Assassin Mitigation Stats from their Def Tab. Campaign/Black Hole Level Preferred but Full Rakata or higher is acceptable.

If you could list your stats and go as far as to list what Augment you have in each gear slot as well as the Relics you are using that would be what I really need.

If you feel good enough to list out what Modification and Enhancement you have in each slot that would be even better, that way I can get a guage for where you are and what is required to get there vs spending more than the necessary amount of credits flip flopping modiciations incorrectly. I have an assassin I plan to tank with eventually and I have enother friend looking to re-vamp their gear. Sadly current/comprehensive and Tankasin Guides seem to be few.

- Fully Buffed - What's Your...
HP
DEF Raiting
SHIELD Rating
ABSORB Raiting


- What is your spec

- What are your Relics

- What is your Augmet in
Ear
Implant 1
Implant 2
Head
Chest
Wrist
Hand
Waist
Legg
Boot
Main Hand
Off Hand
relic 1
relic 2
Berothius - Sorc DPS - Agríàs - Sage DPS - Mollywhop - Merc DPS
Exit AreaTriumph
Squisy Cortanni Killer Infected Revanchist

Rhaphael's Avatar


Rhaphael
08.14.2012 , 08:26 AM | #2
All of the above can be seen in my AMR profile.

Gear tab for my current gear.
Wish List tab for what I plan to have.

Mrchip's Avatar


Mrchip
08.16.2012 , 11:24 PM | #3
I successfully MT Kephess 8-men HM with my gear the other assassin has almost exacly the same setup (we are two sin tank and it works fine).
31/0/10 with "extra" point in nerve wrecking for +3% dmg boost to ops on bombers in kephess fight.

Buffed for ops:
Rakata fortitude stim + BH buff
HP: 26209
Defense chance: 28.23%
Damage reduction: 40.25% (6141 armor)
Shield chance: 45.41 (DW: 65.41%)
Shield absorb:50.48%

Unbuffed with dark charge.
HP: 24000 (exacly)
Damage reduction: 40.25% (6141 armor)
Defense chance: 27.2%
Shield chance: 45.41 (DW: 65.41%)
Shield absorb:50.48%

Link to mr robot ( not updated):
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...5-f41f686bf6ba

Im using Campaign relic of imperiling serenity to get a "extra" cooldown.

But Im not sure if it's bis / best practice.
What are you ppl "targeting" for?

Should I remove some fortitude augments for mitation stats?

Thanks in advance / Zacke.
Zman - Kai Kan Sith Assassin.
These are not the Datacrons you are looking for...

Craxim's Avatar


Craxim
08.17.2012 , 01:08 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Mrchip View Post
I successfully MT Kephess 8-men HM with my gear the other assassin has almost exacly the same setup (we are two sin tank and it works fine).
31/0/10 with "extra" point in nerve wrecking for +3% dmg boost to ops on bombers in kephess fight.

Buffed for ops:
Rakata fortitude stim + BH buff
HP: 26209
Defense chance: 28.23%
Damage reduction: 40.25% (6141 armor)
Shield chance: 45.41 (DW: 65.41%)
Shield absorb:50.48%

Unbuffed with dark charge.
HP: 24000 (exacly)
Damage reduction: 40.25% (6141 armor)
Defense chance: 27.2%
Shield chance: 45.41 (DW: 65.41%)
Shield absorb:50.48%

Link to mr robot ( not updated):
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...5-f41f686bf6ba

Im using Campaign relic of imperiling serenity to get a "extra" cooldown.

But Im not sure if it's bis / best practice.
What are you ppl "targeting" for?

Should I remove some fortitude augments for mitation stats?

Thanks in advance / Zacke.
31/0/10 is the best spec, more Endurance is better than mitigation stats right now, the amount of damage that can't be shielded/avoided is too high, and the double roll system is too RNG to make stacking mitigation stacks better than Endurance. Endurance is a 100% guaranteed increase to time to live, it increases self healing for Sins, the only mitigation stat that isn't RNG (self healing IS just as valuable as Defense/Shield/Abosrb) and it gives room for error for progression when learning mechanics, both for you and your healers. A BiS Sin tank can get roughly 30.5k HP, with 25% Defense, 64% shield and 50% absorb. Increasing your self healing will increase your overall mitigation and throughout a fight mitigate more damage than increasing any of the defensive stats past what is given to you.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...c-8ec295f932be

This is what I call BiS for a Sin tank, and what I will be bringing into our NiM Denova and HM TFB progression soon. The only thing I feel debatable about it is the Power on-use relic, which I took for more Endurance and to help in burn phases in case there is some new mechanic in TFB that we need to PUSH to the max on DPS or if NiM Denova has enrage timers that are hard to beat the first week. With an Exotech stim the total HP is 30.8k I believe, I unfortunately don't have my MK-2 implants yet, so I can't be sure.
Aoroc Jugg Tank -||- Maul Tankasin

mavsynchroid's Avatar


mavsynchroid
08.20.2012 , 12:48 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Craxim View Post
31/0/10 is the best spec, more Endurance is better than mitigation stats right now, the amount of damage that can't be shielded/avoided is too high, and the double roll system is too RNG to make stacking mitigation stacks better than Endurance. Endurance is a 100% guaranteed increase to time to live, it increases self healing for Sins, the only mitigation stat that isn't RNG (self healing IS just as valuable as Defense/Shield/Abosrb) and it gives room for error for progression when learning mechanics, both for you and your healers. A BiS Sin tank can get roughly 30.5k HP, with 25% Defense, 64% shield and 50% absorb. Increasing your self healing will increase your overall mitigation and throughout a fight mitigate more damage than increasing any of the defensive stats past what is given to you.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...c-8ec295f932be

This is what I call BiS for a Sin tank, and what I will be bringing into our NiM Denova and HM TFB progression soon. The only thing I feel debatable about it is the Power on-use relic, which I took for more Endurance and to help in burn phases in case there is some new mechanic in TFB that we need to PUSH to the max on DPS or if NiM Denova has enrage timers that are hard to beat the first week. With an Exotech stim the total HP is 30.8k I believe, I unfortunately don't have my MK-2 implants yet, so I can't be sure.
Heyo, new to Sin tanking, got all columi and some blackhole/rakata so really looking at stats closely now. I'm curious about the spec tree set up you guys have. Why do you have the one that gives lightning charge's discharge a stronger attack? Don't we as sin tanks use dark charge?

EDIT: Crackling charge it's called. Why not have sith defiance instead? Wouldn't you rather reduce dmg?

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
08.20.2012 , 03:22 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by mavsynchroid View Post
Heyo, new to Sin tanking, got all columi and some blackhole/rakata so really looking at stats closely now. I'm curious about the spec tree set up you guys have. Why do you have the one that gives lightning charge's discharge a stronger attack? Don't we as sin tanks use dark charge?

EDIT: Crackling charge it's called. Why not have sith defiance instead? Wouldn't you rather reduce dmg?
I could be wrong, but I think that was a mistake on his part. If you look at his actual profile by clicking on the second link and the spec on that,he has 2 points in Sith Defiance and not in Crackling Charge. Of course I could be wrong and he slightly changes his spec depending on what he is running.
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.”

Craxim's Avatar


Craxim
08.20.2012 , 04:34 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
I could be wrong, but I think that was a mistake on his part. If you look at his actual profile by clicking on the second link and the spec on that,he has 2 points in Sith Defiance and not in Crackling Charge. Of course I could be wrong and he slightly changes his spec depending on what he is running.
No you're right, that was a typo on my part, I've done the spec so many times I fly through it when building it and accidentally chose the wrong one there. This is the right one http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/A...9e76elc-0-230f
Aoroc Jugg Tank -||- Maul Tankasin

Novarium's Avatar


Novarium
08.20.2012 , 11:08 PM | #8
Craxim I agree with everything you have posted expect for one thing and that is you willing to stack endurance over mitigation. I have always taken mitigation over total health and reason being is that the more health u have does not mean the healers have more healing ability so they have a harder time keeping you up at your incedibly high health levels however if u lower your total health and increase mitigation it mean that healers have a much easier time keeping you up because of that. our guild did 16 man Keph HM the first week it came out with me and another sin tanks and our healers much prefer us having mitigation over endurance. however that being said i have agreed with all of your other advice on these forums .

Mitigation > Endurance > Willpower

Craxim's Avatar


Craxim
08.20.2012 , 11:23 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Novarium View Post
Craxim I agree with everything you have posted expect for one thing and that is you willing to stack endurance over mitigation. I have always taken mitigation over total health and reason being is that the more health u have does not mean the healers have more healing ability so they have a harder time keeping you up at your incedibly high health levels however if u lower your total health and increase mitigation it mean that healers have a much easier time keeping you up because of that. our guild did 16 man Keph HM the first week it came out with me and another sin tanks and our healers much prefer us having mitigation over endurance. however that being said i have agreed with all of your other advice on these forums .

Mitigation > Endurance > Willpower
We too did HM Kephess on 16 man the first week it was out. MItigation > Endurance only when you get to the reasonable caps however. The tanks here at <CKN> have done extensive log hunting and have found pretty surprising results. An increase from 60% shield rating to 70% shield rating with an absorb of 50% and a defense 25% only yielded on average 5000 damage points of mitigation. An increase of defense from 25% to 30% only yielded roughly 3 more attacks being defended against. Mitigation vs Endurance is an argument that can be had for the other 2 tanks, but the fact that more Endurance increases our ability to self heal, the strongest form of mitigation in the game that isn't RNG, AS WELL as giving room for error on both the sides of the tanks and the healers during progression, puts Endurance for Sin tanks above mitigation stats when looking at the games best available gear. Our healers have had a much easier time healing a larger health tank.

To help explain my point/save myself the time of doing it, I'll reference as I have before Kihra from Methodical.


Quote: Originally Posted by Kihra View Post
KeyboardNinja, it's nice that you have collected this data. Knowing damage breakdowns is nice. I do think it's important to be careful how we interpret this data though.

When it comes to hard content, a tank should be concerned with worst case burst scenarios. If we define a death event as the collection of damaging hits and heals we receive from our last fully topped off point to death, then what we should be concerned with is analyzing these death events to see what the damage looked like that killed us.

A lot of theorycrafting has been done in WoW for this sort of thing, and I think it's important not to re-invent the wheel. Much of the knowledge gained from studying that game applies to tanks here.

In particular I see a lot of tanks severely undervaluing Endurance in this game and thinking that secondary tank stats are more beneficial than Endurance. Assuming tanks start getting hit harder in Nightmare Mode, tanks will need to be more concerned with Effective Health, i.e., with stats that provide a guaranteed increase to time-to-live.

Defense, Shield and Absorb rating are problematic in that they smooth out streaks of unavoided and unshielded hits, but in a worst-case scenario the tank is still going to receive such hits. This isn't to say you should actively avoid secondary tank stats like Defense, Shield and Absorb, but you should never take them at the expense of Endurance, which provides a guaranteed increase to Effective Health.

If you could cap Shield Rating, then the value of that stat would increase because it adds to your Effective Health against blockable attacks. However capping right now is not realistic.

In general, I feel like tanks on these forums have been a bit too concerned with minimizing DTPS, since the content is all so easy, and may be in for a shock if Nightmare Mode hits the tanks with actual burst. Minimizing DTPS is only good up to a point, since you have to be thinking about incoming HPS. If healers provide a steady-state HPS of 5000, then it doesn't matter whether a tank takes 2000 DTPS or 4000 DTPS... the healers will keep either tank alive just as easily.

Just to provide an example, I think the optimal gearing for Shadow tanks to prepare for Nightmare Mode content is to use Fortitude Augments in every slot (+18 Endurance / +12 Power), and to favor the Mods and Enhancements that maximize Endurance. These are the +57 Endurance and +53 Endurance mods/enhancements. Once fully maximized in Campaign Gear, a shadow tank ends up with ~31k health buffed, 25% defense, and the rest of the secondary tank stats in Shield/Absorb.

Deliberately lowering Endurance in favor of secondary tank stats is IMO not the optimal way for any tank to gear. Guaranteed effective health will always be better than secondary tank stats that only apply some of the time and that only provide RNG protection against worst-case burst scenarios. Until those tank stats can be "capped" (e.g., like paladins block capping in Cata WoW), Endurance is the way to go.

Obviously in the worst case extreme, stacking only Endurance would make you a "mana sponge." However the choices of mods/enhancements/augments preclude this from occurring right now, since you still end up with more than enough secondary tank stats to avoid that problem.
This is on page 7 of a very informative thread about tanking stats in general located here.

They go on to discuss more in depth what things like Effective Health and Time to Live are when measuring variables, I would certainly recommend the read for information sakes. When gearing my characters however, I always try to gear with future content in mind, not current content. And based on the high DR values on current defensive stats at Campaign level gear coupled with the minute returns we've seen in our logs from them have made me believe that Endurance is the way to go. The increased self healing value has increased total mitigation to a level far beyond that of the Jugg and PT tanks. Adding in the fact that so much damage in the game right now is unavoidable/unshieldable makes Endurance even more worthy. As he says in his post, that in worst case scenarios you could become a mana sponge, but the fact that it is impossible to NOT take defensive stats on your gear eliminates that issue.
Aoroc Jugg Tank -||- Maul Tankasin