Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Star Trek vs Star Wars (multiple scenarios)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Star Trek vs Star Wars (multiple scenarios)

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
08.08.2012 , 02:25 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Instead of the usual battles, I want to mix it up with multiple ones.

Species Rules: No force-users, military power only. No calling out-of-faction help.

The Galactic Empire(RotJ, not post-RotJ) vs The Dominion (DS9)

The Undine(Species 8472 from Voyager) vs The Yuuzhan Vong.

The Borg Collective vs the Galactic Alliance.

Klingon Empire vs The Sith Empire(TOR) (Special Rule of no Force Users stretched to allow Average Sith Warriors, etc... no big boys).
In a straight up brawl The Galaric Empire might have lost to the Dominion. My ST is rusty but I think the Dominion had more of a numbers advantage. But the Empire did have it's Special Forces and some very brilliant commanders (if they survived a run in with Vader that is). It would be close but I think the Empire would pull off a win by the hair on it's backside. Now if we factor in the Death Star then the Empire has a much better chance.

Don't know anything about the Undine as I have not watched a lot of Voyager. I have to skip on this one.

Borg vs GA. The GA has something that the Federation, now any other faction in Star Trek had as far as I know, and that is Ion Weapons. With these they could effectively shut down the Borg and destroy them. So I would have to give the advantage to the GA.

Onevsone a Sith warrior and a Klingon warrior would be a close fight. Once the Sith starts Force Choking or using lightning the scales tip in his favor. Imperial troops vs Klingon troops I give the advantage to the Sith Empire. At range. Close quarters fighting the Klingon get the advantage. in Space I think the Imperial ships have too much firepower but the Klingon vessels have more manuverability and can cloak. Uing hit and run attacks the Klingons can be effective. But they can't go head to head with the Sith vessels. Overall I think the Sith Empire wins. Not without very high losses though. The Klingons will make you pay for a victory.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
08.08.2012 , 03:35 PM | #12
Star Wars lasers can't penetrate Star Trek shields. Game Over for Star Wars.

Hell, lasers can't even penetrate a Starfleet frigate's navigation deflector.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
08.08.2012 , 03:53 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Star Wars lasers can't penetrate Star Trek shields. Game Over for Star Wars.

Hell, lasers can't even penetrate a Starfleet frigate's navigation deflector.
The excellent reply to that is: Trek lasers=! Wars Lasorz.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.08.2012 , 04:11 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
The excellent reply to that is: Trek lasers=! Wars Lasorz.
If you can say that, I can also say: The units used in the Star Wars datafiles are not the units in the Star Trek datafiles.

So I personally always say: They have comparable weapons with comparable energy levels. If not we will only get

Star Wars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Star Trek

or

Star Trek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Star Wars
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
08.08.2012 , 04:12 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
If you can say that, I can also say: The units used in the Star Wars datafiles are not the units in the Star Trek datafiles.

So I personally always say: They have comparable weapons with comparable energy levels. If not we will only get

Star Wars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Star Trek

or

Star Trek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Star Wars
That was what I was thinking, they are on an even level weapons wise, enough to pose a significant threat o each other ship to ship.

Sipah's Avatar


Sipah
08.08.2012 , 04:19 PM | #16
I'm going to vote for star wars. The sheer size of their ships dwarfs anything the trekkies have including borg cubes. Also, the ability to blow up entire planets is nothing to sneeze at.

Check out this link for some obviously biased but entertaining analysis: http://www.stardestroyer.net/

Also, there is some really good fan fic: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/...est/index.html

and in pdf format: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/...t/Conquest.pdf

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
08.08.2012 , 08:16 PM | #17
The "Trek ships are immune to lasers" argument simply doesn't fly. They never made a definitive statement that no lasers could penetrate Trek shields for one, they specifically referred to a specific laser being used.

The other argument is this...

Star Wars doesn't use lasers.

Star Wars uses blasters. Though they are often called turbolasers on capital ships, that terminology isn't correct. In Star Wars how blasters function is simple...

The Star Wars blaster has a cylinder which fills with tibana gas. Tibana gas has special properties that violate every known law of physics and give you more energy out then was put inside of it. The Tibana gas is heated by an "energy stream" (what kind of energy stream it is, we don't know, all we know is that it super heats the Tibana gas) then the Tibana gas is ejected out of the cylinder and out of the barrel.

This attack is known as "Plasma" and in Star Trek "Plasma" has been shown to be ridiculously effective.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
08.08.2012 , 08:48 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Species Rules: No force-users, military power only. No calling out-of-faction help.

The Galactic Empire(RotJ, not post-RotJ) vs The Dominion (DS9)
Dominion would probably win, hyperdrives may be able to traverse distances more quickly, but they are vulnerable to Mass Shadows, while Warp Drive is not. Turbolasers are plasma-based weapons which Star Trek shielding would be rather effective against (plasma weapons are a known weapon type in Star Trek and is sometimes considered outdated). Also if you want to get really technical, an Oberth class science vessel could serious wreck a planet due to the fuel supply (large quantities of anti-matter).

This would be a closer fight than say the Empire (RotJ) vs the United Federation of Planets (DS9 or TNG era), because Dominion Attack ships didn't exactly have good shielding, the larger Dominion Cruisers however would probably decide the fight. TIE fighters would be a nonfactor due to lack of any shielding whatsoever.

Only spoiler in all of this would be the Death Star II, and quite frankly due to transporters, a Death Star can be negated, not to mention the superlaser would have a hard time targetting many of the Dominion vessels (Star Trek ships were usually smaller that Star Wars capital ships).

I would say the Galactic Alliance may actually have a better chance against the Dominion because starfighters become a factor since all Alliance Fighters have shielding.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post

The Undine(Species 8472 from Voyager) vs The Yuuzhan Vong.
Difficult to say, Species 8472 is telepathic and their ships are entirely organic in nature, would probably give the Yuuzhan Vong a serious religious conundrum.

From what we've seen of 8472, they are immune to assimiliation, which negates quite a few of the more terrible Vong weapons (ridiculously good immune systems kinda defeats the point of a germ or bacterial based bio-weapon).

While the mini blackhole shield/drives may pose a problem for species 8472 at first, I doubt it would be for long because their ships are biological in nature, not mechanical and can rapidly adapt.

Species 8472 has an across the board advantage when it comes to dishing out damage too, even their smaller ships pack a serious punch.

Species 8472 is the most likely to win, they are able to adapt to an enemy more rapidly than even the Borg in some ways. They can match the Vong on coordination rather easily, they have the firepower advantage, and I doubt the Vong would figure out how to invade fluidic space.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post

The Borg Collective vs the Galactic Alliance.
The Borg would win unless we had Jedi involved and even then the Borg would likely win. The Alliance would do better than the Empire, because the Alliance was more unorthodox, and Borg weapons had a harder time targetting smaller craft. Mon Cal cruisers and their redundent shield generators may have some options to block some attacks, but all in all the Borg would have too much of an advantage.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post

Klingon Empire vs The Sith Empire(TOR) (Special Rule of no Force Users stretched to allow Average Sith Warriors, etc... no big boys).
Well having Sith Warriors (average ones) in the fray gives the Empire a chance, but quite frankly the Klingons are more likely to win.

In combat:
Standard Sidearm for Klingon warrior is a disruptor, its' lowest setting is kill, and has higher settings including vaporize, it makes a blaster rifle look like a toy water gun...

In ship to ship:
Photon Torpedoes pack more of a wallop than Star Wars proton torpedos and concussion missiles (to give you an idea a standard photon torpedo at rest has the destructive potential of 64 megatons, you see torpedos being lobbed at targets at speeds of at least .25c (25% of the speed of light).

Disruptors: They probably can do more damage than turbolasers.

Cloaking Device: Klingon vessels at least in TNG were usually equipped with a cloaking device.

Transporters: The ability to beam troops or explosive devices onto enemy ships without having to dock or use some sort of pod to deliver said troops or devices, gives the Klingons a pretty big advantage that the Sith Empire would have no answer to.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
08.08.2012 , 09:10 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
The "Trek ships are immune to lasers" argument simply doesn't fly. They never made a definitive statement that no lasers could penetrate Trek shields for one, they specifically referred to a specific laser being used.

The other argument is this...

Star Wars doesn't use lasers.

Star Wars uses blasters. Though they are often called turbolasers on capital ships, that terminology isn't correct. In Star Wars how blasters function is simple...

The Star Wars blaster has a cylinder which fills with tibana gas. Tibana gas has special properties that violate every known law of physics and give you more energy out then was put inside of it. The Tibana gas is heated by an "energy stream" (what kind of energy stream it is, we don't know, all we know is that it super heats the Tibana gas) then the Tibana gas is ejected out of the cylinder and out of the barrel.

This attack is known as "Plasma" and in Star Trek "Plasma" has been shown to be ridiculously effective.
I like you Prof. You use facts to represent your argument and try to keep things respectful. I try to do that as well.

Now, as to the topic at hand. I think Star Wars would win. I think Star Wars weaponry is far more effective against trekkie stuff, like Walsh said. Plasma is very effective against Billy Shatner and his ship.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.08.2012 , 09:35 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
The "Trek ships are immune to lasers" argument simply doesn't fly. They never made a definitive statement that no lasers could penetrate Trek shields for one, they specifically referred to a specific laser being used.

The other argument is this...

Star Wars doesn't use lasers.

Star Wars uses blasters. Though they are often called turbolasers on capital ships, that terminology isn't correct. In Star Wars how blasters function is simple...

The Star Wars blaster has a cylinder which fills with tibana gas. Tibana gas has special properties that violate every known law of physics and give you more energy out then was put inside of it. The Tibana gas is heated by an "energy stream" (what kind of energy stream it is, we don't know, all we know is that it super heats the Tibana gas) then the Tibana gas is ejected out of the cylinder and out of the barrel.

This attack is known as "Plasma" and in Star Trek "Plasma" has been shown to be ridiculously effective.
True. But in most cases plasma is not ridiculously effective, it is effective. Plasma weapons are standard weapons in Star Trek throughout the ages. A little less effective than Phasers, but still dangerous. Especially if you remember that Star Wars ships have lot's and lot's of turbolasers/plasma cannons, while Star Trek ships only have a few phasers or disruptors.

Now, I think I also should say a little about these different battles.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Instead of the usual battles, I want to mix it up with multiple ones.
So battles, not all out wars, right? Because in all out wars, most Star Trek powers would probably loose. They are minor powers in the Galaxy compared to the big Star Wars powers. It would be like Advozse Hegemony against Republic.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post

The Galactic Empire(RotJ, not post-RotJ) vs The Dominion (DS9)
I haven't seen DS9, so I cant really answer this.

Quote:
The Undine(Species 8472 from Voyager) vs The Yuuzhan Vong.
I know too little about the Yuuzhan Vong to answer this.

Quote:
The Borg Collective vs the Galactic Alliance.
I know not much about the Galactic Alliance, but I tend to give this to the Borg.

[QUOTE]Klingon Empire vs The Sith Empire(TOR) (Special Rule of no Force Users stretched to allow Average Sith Warriors, etc... no big boys).[/QUOTE]

Finally something I can say about. In a battle I think it will boil down to the Fleet Commanders talents.

First both fleets would fire at each other. Klingon weapons are probably more destructive, but the Empire's ships have more turrets. The Sith come in fighter range, and there it gets interesting: Fighters probably couldn't do much damage, but bombers could. Klingon ships don't have phasers, so they might have difficulties with countering the bombers.

The Sith will start sending boarding parties, some will get shot down, others will come through. The Klingons probably can repell them, exept it is a flashpoint with player characters. Now the Klingon beam over. The question is:

Would the Klingons be smart enough to beam into engineering and sabotage the ship instead of trying to conquer it?

Because if they try to conquer it, they will get problems with the Sith and probably wouldn't succeed. I think a Sith Lord can solo eight Klingon warriors at once and an apprentice at least four. And a Darth would just snap their necks.

On the other side: the Sith Empire's ships have weapons all around, while klingon ships have mostly frontal main cannons.

Will the Empire's admiral be smart enough to position his ships in a way that he can fire and the Klingons can't?


In general I'd give this to the Empire, if the bombers can do considerable damage on the Klingon ships.



Now, I have to questions:

Would the Klingons join Darth Malgus?

Would the Federation and Republic be allies or would they decide to merge?

Who would the Romulans ally with?

Would all Vulcans become Jedi? Would they ask the Jedi to teach them the ways of the Force? (I think they are Force sensitive, because they are telepats and can do some weird things.)

And last but not least:

Can the Tal Shiar compete with Imperial Intelligence?
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall