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Skill vs. Gear


Nippon's Avatar


Nippon
08.08.2012 , 01:16 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Larzi View Post
I see a lot of threads about removing PvP gear so even the playing field ... but like........ That would make it worse i assure you.

Imagine you just hit lvl 50 and are looking forward to the massive upgrades provided by the free Recruit gear, but instead of pvp gear you are stuck pvping with your crappy greens from PvE sub 50.

You que for a warzone to fight against people with more than twice your HPs that have been farming NM ops for the last few months.

The fact remains that there will ALWAYS be a large gap from the hardcore players that stick to the gear grind and the fresh 50s (or those that have the highest skill obviously) that aren't completing their daliy and weekly every single time.

Recruit gear is a blessing for most casual players.

The current gear system is great, because once you get max war hero gear it REALLY does become about skill against other similarly geared pvpers.

Have a good day.
I have been grinding War Hero now for quite some time (maybe 2-3 months) on my Exclusive PVP toon, I do nothing but PVP on him, obviously that is not all i do in game and have 4 x 50 PVE toons, but the grind for War Heor gear compared to say Rakata is borderline Ridiculous, Especially with no Solo queue for RWZ....

I see no need what so ever for Expertise rated gear on a PVE server, needless to say I see no point in it at all....If players want to grind rakata via PVP then put that gear on the vendors and abolish the Expertise gear once and for all...

PVP is about fun, not grinding, especially in a game that supports ZERO open world PVP and has 4 War Zones. Its repetitive, boring, mind numbing and excludes a lot of people based on these facts...

No expertise = Better PVP all round and tbh you might then actually find some players in Ilum...!!! ???

Or at the very least

PVP servers = Full Expertise, Even on OPS, Flashpoints... (OPS, Flashpoint gear not quite as good as PVP comm gear)
PVE server = No Expertise, all gear is PVE....

this then stops the question, as everyone is on an even playing field, and skill is all that wins...>Ow and CC.

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
08.08.2012 , 01:16 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols View Post
For all players, it is indeed not true at all, but blanket assumptions are totally fun! I'm not talking about 1 vs 1's here, I'm simply referring to countless times I've seen Recruit type players do just fine (if not better than some WH geared players) due to skill. Sure, if you took 2 equally skilled players and put one in recruit and the other in WH there will be a difference, but recruit geared players that have solid skills in PvP will be fine through the short grind for BM. The only aspect of recruit gear I dislike, is the HP factor, which indeed needs a bump so don't label this as me totally riding the recruit is fine train. Simply stating a fact earlier.
In yellow. I 100% agree. If more people had this mind set we may see less quitters before WZs start.

Gear simply takes time. Skill is a different beast all together. Some with skill don't have the time (or stomach) to max out gear on a single toon. That doesn't make them less than.
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TheRiddick's Avatar


TheRiddick
08.08.2012 , 02:59 PM | #23
sorry op but you don't get it... not at all... your argument is not even based upon the skill vs gear ... its gear vs gear... what needs to happen is gear be taken out of the pvp equation completely. set stats for class types... or hell if you are such a gear focused person... cosmetic gear per class that is just a costume pretty much but has stats applied to it. for example... you buy the combat medic gear set... it gives you set stats for combat medic. that way everyone who buys this set has the same stats... now you are reliant on skill. if you are going combat tech... buy the set that is for combat tech. IF you want to have more customization then have an empty augment slot on those costume pieces that way if you want more endurance, or more main stat you can add a bit of that... but not enough to be game breaking as is now...

"but but but PvE still has gear progression" that is gonna be your arguement... (i know it is) there is a huge difference between pvp and pve... that being you can choose what type of enemies you want to go against. If i jumped into Denova with 45 greens... guess what i am gonna get rolled. ALSO if you are such a progression nazzi, Have different cosmetic looks that you get upon valor completion... it promotes even gameplay, will the noobs get pwned... you bet... and they will have no excuse. right now.. with gear progression in PvP... you are alienating any new player base you may get.... gear progression is pve not pvp... pvp should be about skill... and right now it is dumbed down to gear making too much of a difference.

Its not about gear.... its stats.... make them set... and then the whiners will be shown they are bad... but the people who refined their skill will shine
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Katsuragisama's Avatar


Katsuragisama
08.08.2012 , 04:03 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRiddick View Post
"but but but PvE still has gear progression" that is gonna be your arguement... (i know it is) there is a huge difference between pvp and pve... that being you can choose what type of enemies you want to go against. If i jumped into Denova with 45 greens... guess what i am gonna get rolled. ALSO if you are such a progression nazzi, Have different cosmetic looks that you get upon valor completion... it promotes even gameplay, will the noobs get pwned... you bet... and they will have no excuse. right now.. with gear progression in PvP... you are alienating any new player base you may get.... gear progression is pve not pvp... pvp should be about skill... and right now it is dumbed down to gear making too much of a difference.
Not many people care about only getting aesthetics. I only care about looks, it's the reason that I sacrificed Assassins ugly pink gear set bonus for +1 Recklessness charge, and instead wore the Sorcs nice black/red/white gear before WH was released. But most only care about stat progression and gear crutch. I mean look at how many play WoW, Rift, SW:TOR. Or I could be wrong and it's just because not many games have adapted a horizontal progression system over the vertical progression system.

People who dont care about the gear crutch and just want fun, balanced PvP without having to grind to be competitive (or stay competitive because they took a month(+) long break), will be/have already left (for the most part) to play that upcoming "other game". And some will stay here because they're just sick of the fantasy setting, and prefer science fantasy. To each his/her own though.
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Daiyukie's Avatar


Daiyukie
08.08.2012 , 04:47 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRiddick View Post
sorry op but you don't get it... not at all... your argument is not even based upon the skill vs gear ... its gear vs gear... what needs to happen is gear be taken out of the pvp equation completely. set stats for class types... or hell if you are such a gear focused person... cosmetic gear per class that is just a costume pretty much but has stats applied to it. for example... you buy the combat medic gear set... it gives you set stats for combat medic. that way everyone who buys this set has the same stats... now you are reliant on skill. if you are going combat tech... buy the set that is for combat tech. IF you want to have more customization then have an empty augment slot on those costume pieces that way if you want more endurance, or more main stat you can add a bit of that... but not enough to be game breaking as is now...

"but but but PvE still has gear progression" that is gonna be your argument
No, my argument is gonna be that what you are describing would be exactly what happens if BW actually put useful stats on the default gear sets. The fact that you have to buy 3 more sets of gear to pull one mod from each piece and one enhancement from each of set of different pieces to get useful stats is what causes gear disparity. People who optimize versus people who don't rather than "BM vs WH" since the difference between optimized BM and optimized WH is not much at all.
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Brool's Avatar


Brool
08.08.2012 , 04:57 PM | #26
for all the this game is gear vs gear posts.. what happens in a year when you all have wh gear vs wh gear... Is it still gear vs gear?
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Morrolan's Avatar


Morrolan
08.08.2012 , 05:09 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Larzi View Post
The current gear system is great, because once you get max war hero gear it REALLY does become about skill against other similarly geared pvpers.
.
This is assuming you want to spend the 250-300 hours needed to get all WH gear and don't mind being thrashed every time you set foot in a rwz until you get mostly all WH gear. I'm just over half way there on 1 toon and am about to give up on that toon because its ridiculous and has become boring. In contrast 1-49 pvp on other toons is great.
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Katsuragisama's Avatar


Katsuragisama
08.08.2012 , 05:17 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Morrolan View Post
This is assuming you want to spend the 250-300 hours needed to get all WH gear and don't mind being thrashed every time you set foot in a rwz until you get mostly all WH gear. I'm just over half was there on 1 toon and am about to give up on that toon because its ridiculous and has become boring. In contrast 1-49 pvp on other toons is great.
Same. I grinded my *** off for BM gear, through all the RNG bag bull**** as well. Then WH is implemented and BM is given out for what, 12k WZ comms for a full set I think from what I've heard. I grinded a few pieces of WH and asked myself, "What's the use?" I'll probably end up stating away from vertical progression based MMORPGs for the rest of the time. Unless it's more challenging and less grindy time consuming.
Quote: Originally Posted by John Riccitiello, Electronic Arts Inc. - CEO
When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time... We're not gouging, but we're charging.

Scritchy's Avatar


Scritchy
08.08.2012 , 06:43 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Brool View Post
for all the this game is gear vs gear posts.. what happens in a year when you all have wh gear vs wh gear... Is it still gear vs gear?
What about in a year when two more tiers are added, furthering the distance between fresh 50s and old timers?

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
08.08.2012 , 08:29 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Brool View Post
for all the this game is gear vs gear posts.. what happens in a year when you all have wh gear vs wh gear... Is it still gear vs gear?
It's not. But why not make it so every has greens vs greens? Then everyone would always have been on equal footing. Right now not everyone is on equal footing.

Your post is invalid.
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