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Skill vs. Gear


Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
08.08.2012 , 10:32 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
This romanticized "Skill vs. Skill" concept is nothing but a newbie fantasy. It is invented as one of many excuses for a bad player with a huge "size of ego - to - actual skill" ratio to comfort oneself by constantly blaming something else as the reason they are defeated so often in PvP games.

In actual combat there is no "equal condition" where pure skill vs. skill collide. Even if gear level is the same, there is always a huge number of outside/inside factors which influence a fight. If its not for the gear, certainly the terribad player will always rely on the next excuse, and bring it up as some bogus "problem" that is supposed to be "killing" PvP. If its not the ganking/numbers advantage, range/melee difference, terrain/hazards, WZ environment, LoS/obstacles, class balance, skill balance, and on and on and on and on... they just simply dig up some next excuse to use.

In reality, in any combat, "pure skill" is but one of many factors which influence the outcome, and such is the reason why experienced players usually define "skill" as a very large concept that encompasses one's ability to use/adapt a variety of elements and conditions around them -- and not just how and when you press a button.

Among those wide range of things that make up "skill" for experienced PvP players, preparation and training before the fight itself is one of them. Top players in PvP make sure that not only are they sharp in personal combat technique, but also make preparations to increase their chance of survival + wins in any way they can. They constantly, and so very dilligently make efforts to be equipped with the best of gear/items in any way they can.

Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a "player undergeared, but excellent in skill, and would win many games if it were not for gear difference" -- the only exception being an already experienced player making a new character. This is basically "the Natural" complex... the romantic dream of an ungroomed, untrained, natural player with so much potential that in some sports/game that suddenly appears out of nowhere and trumps professional players.

These are all, excuses. Made-up fantasies to cover one's own insecurity.
Very well said, thank you.
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
-Darth Bane

-Ransome-'s Avatar


-Ransome-
08.08.2012 , 10:42 AM | #12
the only reason to make games gear based is... If you don't have skill just get better gear. Y'all stay put I'm gonna go play GW2
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Asukaa's Avatar


Asukaa
08.08.2012 , 11:23 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by -Ransome- View Post
the only reason to make games gear based is... If you don't have skill just get better gear. Y'all stay put I'm gonna go play GW2
GW2 is going to be the same, except instead of a gear grind it will be a skill point grind. Maybe you should have opt'ed to play the beta's?

Ghostuka's Avatar


Ghostuka
08.08.2012 , 11:43 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
This romanticized "Skill vs. Skill" concept is nothing but a newbie fantasy. It is invented as one of many excuses for a bad player with a huge "size of ego - to - actual skill" ratio to comfort oneself by constantly blaming something else as the reason they are defeated so often in PvP games.

In actual combat there is no "equal condition" where pure skill vs. skill collide. Even if gear level is the same, there is always a huge number of outside/inside factors which influence a fight. If its not for the gear, certainly the terribad player will always rely on the next excuse, and bring it up as some bogus "problem" that is supposed to be "killing" PvP. If its not the ganking/numbers advantage, range/melee difference, terrain/hazards, WZ environment, LoS/obstacles, class balance, skill balance, and on and on and on and on... they just simply dig up some next excuse to use.

In reality, in any combat, "pure skill" is but one of many factors which influence the outcome, and such is the reason why experienced players usually define "skill" as a very large concept that encompasses one's ability to use/adapt a variety of elements and conditions around them -- and not just how and when you press a button.

Among those wide range of things that make up "skill" for experienced PvP players, preparation and training before the fight itself is one of them. Top players in PvP make sure that not only are they sharp in personal combat technique, but also make preparations to increase their chance of survival + wins in any way they can. They constantly, and so very dilligently make efforts to be equipped with the best of gear/items in any way they can.

Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a "player undergeared, but excellent in skill, and would win many games if it were not for gear difference" -- the only exception being an already experienced player making a new character. This is basically "the Natural" complex... the romantic dream of an ungroomed, untrained, natural player with so much potential that in some sports/game that suddenly appears out of nowhere and trumps professional players.

These are all, excuses. Made-up fantasies to cover one's own insecurity.
sexcellent post
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Xelanoux's Avatar


Xelanoux
08.08.2012 , 11:58 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Larzi View Post
I see a lot of threads about removing PvP gear so even the playing field ... but like........ That would make it worse i assure you.

Imagine you just hit lvl 50 and are looking forward to the massive upgrades provided by the free Recruit gear, but instead of pvp gear you are stuck pvping with your crappy greens from PvE sub 50.

You que for a warzone to fight against people with more than twice your HPs that have been farming NM ops for the last few months.

The fact remains that there will ALWAYS be a large gap from the hardcore players that stick to the gear grind and the fresh 50s (or those that have the highest skill obviously) that aren't completing their daliy and weekly every single time.

Recruit gear is a blessing for most casual players.

The current gear system is great, because once you get max war hero gear it REALLY does become about skill against other similarly geared pvpers.

Have a good day.
I don't believe this, I believe recruit gear was an appeasement. You're still pathetic without Battlemaster no matter the skill level

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
08.08.2012 , 12:13 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
This romanticized "Skill vs. Skill" concept is nothing but a newbie fantasy. It is invented as one of many excuses for a bad player with a huge "size of ego - to - actual skill" ratio to comfort oneself by constantly blaming something else as the reason they are defeated so often in PvP games.

In actual combat there is no "equal condition" where pure skill vs. skill collide. Even if gear level is the same, there is always a huge number of outside/inside factors which influence a fight. If its not for the gear, certainly the terribad player will always rely on the next excuse, and bring it up as some bogus "problem" that is supposed to be "killing" PvP. If its not the ganking/numbers advantage, range/melee difference, terrain/hazards, WZ environment, LoS/obstacles, class balance, skill balance, and on and on and on and on... they just simply dig up some next excuse to use.

In reality, in any combat, "pure skill" is but one of many factors which influence the outcome, and such is the reason why experienced players usually define "skill" as a very large concept that encompasses one's ability to use/adapt a variety of elements and conditions around them -- and not just how and when you press a button.

Among those wide range of things that make up "skill" for experienced PvP players, preparation and training before the fight itself is one of them. Top players in PvP make sure that not only are they sharp in personal combat technique, but also make preparations to increase their chance of survival + wins in any way they can. They constantly, and so very dilligently make efforts to be equipped with the best of gear/items in any way they can.

Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a "player undergeared, but excellent in skill, and would win many games if it were not for gear difference" -- the only exception being an already experienced player making a new character. This is basically "the Natural" complex... the romantic dream of an ungroomed, untrained, natural player with so much potential that in some sports/game that suddenly appears out of nowhere and trumps professional players.

These are all, excuses. Made-up fantasies to cover one's own insecurity.
I'm being hit by 4.2k High Impact bolts (All BM save for implants, earpiece, and offhand). I'm hitting my spam move for 900, 1500 on crit (Flame Burst). Take the best player in the world in my posistion, pretty much any non-autistic player WILL win given they both use equal cooldowns (Because let's face it, if I have to use all the cooldowns in my arsenal to marginally beat someone who uses no over 1 minute cooldowns, there IS a problem).

I'm beating people with 17k hp marginally (I have 15k), any less and I am almost always winning. Any more and I lose.

Its gear.

Although you're right in saying there may be not such a thing as "Good player, bad gear", there IS such a thing as "bad gear, cannot compete". The problem is in the imbalance, whether or not we'd win if it's equal is not the point.
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
08.08.2012 , 12:36 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Xelanoux View Post
I don't believe this, I believe recruit gear was an appeasement. You're still pathetic without Battlemaster no matter the skill level
For bad players, this is indeed true.

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
08.08.2012 , 01:03 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols View Post
For bad players, this is indeed true.
For all players, it is indeed true.

Full augmented WH will kill recruit gear, no matter the class, and very little skill involved; Of course if you put an autistic 5 year old in front of the keyboard, the recruit gear would win, but since when do autistic 5 year olds play video games?
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

FalcoLombardi's Avatar


FalcoLombardi
08.08.2012 , 01:05 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Asukaa View Post
GW2 is going to be the same, except instead of a gear grind it will be a skill point grind. Maybe you should have opt'ed to play the beta's?
Pretty sure when you PvP you get put at level 80 with max skill points and traits. If not, skill point quests aren't that hard to complete. Also you don't need every skill point, you can get the skills you want easily and quickly while leveling up
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Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
08.08.2012 , 01:10 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post
For all players, it is indeed true.

Full augmented WH will kill recruit gear, no matter the class, and very little skill involved; Of course if you put an autistic 5 year old in front of the keyboard, the recruit gear would win, but since when do autistic 5 year olds play video games?
For all players, it is indeed not true at all, but blanket assumptions are totally fun! I'm not talking about 1 vs 1's here, I'm simply referring to countless times I've seen Recruit type players do just fine (if not better than some WH geared players) due to skill. Sure, if you took 2 equally skilled players and put one in recruit and the other in WH there will be a difference, but recruit geared players that have solid skills in PvP will be fine through the short grind for BM. The only aspect of recruit gear I dislike, is the HP factor, which indeed needs a bump so don't label this as me totally riding the recruit is fine train. Simply stating a fact earlier.