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Skill vs. Gear


Larzi's Avatar


Larzi
08.08.2012 , 07:40 AM | #1
I see a lot of threads about removing PvP gear so even the playing field ... but like........ That would make it worse i assure you.

Imagine you just hit lvl 50 and are looking forward to the massive upgrades provided by the free Recruit gear, but instead of pvp gear you are stuck pvping with your crappy greens from PvE sub 50.

You que for a warzone to fight against people with more than twice your HPs that have been farming NM ops for the last few months.

The fact remains that there will ALWAYS be a large gap from the hardcore players that stick to the gear grind and the fresh 50s (or those that have the highest skill obviously) that aren't completing their daliy and weekly every single time.

Recruit gear is a blessing for most casual players.

The current gear system is great, because once you get max war hero gear it REALLY does become about skill against other similarly geared pvpers.

Have a good day.
Pub: 55 vanguard tank/ 55 mando/ 55 guard/55 scoundrel

Imp :55 jug tank/ 55 pt/55 sin/ 47 sniper

Larzi's Avatar


Larzi
08.08.2012 , 08:05 AM | #2
I am putting in this reply after 41 views and not a single post.

Since there have been numerous additions to the complaing threads very similar to this topic i will assume that the truthiness of this post pwns your complaints.
Pub: 55 vanguard tank/ 55 mando/ 55 guard/55 scoundrel

Imp :55 jug tank/ 55 pt/55 sin/ 47 sniper

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
08.08.2012 , 08:25 AM | #3
So it's okay that skill matters when the gear is the same.

You're acting like the WH want to play other WH.

1. So why have gear? WH vs WH is the same as recruit vs recruit, the only difference is hard numbering, but they're identical, comparatively.

2. Since number one has no rational answer, you might as well have everyone start off with the same gear so that everyone's equal like you're insinuating, but then everyone's ALWAYS equal.
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Larzi's Avatar


Larzi
08.08.2012 , 08:49 AM | #4
Fact: not everyone is equal.

Me for example, im max war hero gear as a tank vanguard= 1322 expertise and 24.1k hps

If i was able to use my PvE against other players in PvE gear....= 29k hps and 9k armor

Take your pick.
Pub: 55 vanguard tank/ 55 mando/ 55 guard/55 scoundrel

Imp :55 jug tank/ 55 pt/55 sin/ 47 sniper

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.08.2012 , 08:57 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post
1. So why have gear? WH vs WH is the same as recruit vs recruit, the only difference is hard numbering, but they're identical, comparatively. .
this isn't completely true. some classes benefit from other classes by filling up their soft cap. certain classes benefit more than others stacking power once soft caps are reached cuz power does more for them.

nevertheless, all gear the same stats would be closer to even playing field. I don't really care that there are gear tiers. it takes a whole week to graduate from most of the recruit stuff.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

Ravashakk's Avatar


Ravashakk
08.08.2012 , 08:57 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post
So it's okay that skill matters when the gear is the same.

You're acting like the WH want to play other WH.

1. So why have gear? WH vs WH is the same as recruit vs recruit, the only difference is hard numbering, but they're identical, comparatively.

2. Since number one has no rational answer, you might as well have everyone start off with the same gear so that everyone's equal like you're insinuating, but then everyone's ALWAYS equal.
The only thing that is the same on WH gear is stat allocation. I switch things out to fit my play style, so my gear will most assuredly be different than other operatives who accept cookie cutterness.

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
08.08.2012 , 09:02 AM | #7
This romanticized "Skill vs. Skill" concept is nothing but a newbie fantasy. It is invented as one of many excuses for a bad player with a huge "size of ego - to - actual skill" ratio to comfort oneself by constantly blaming something else as the reason they are defeated so often in PvP games.

In actual combat there is no "equal condition" where pure skill vs. skill collide. Even if gear level is the same, there is always a huge number of outside/inside factors which influence a fight. If its not for the gear, certainly the terribad player will always rely on the next excuse, and bring it up as some bogus "problem" that is supposed to be "killing" PvP. If its not the ganking/numbers advantage, range/melee difference, terrain/hazards, WZ environment, LoS/obstacles, class balance, skill balance, and on and on and on and on... they just simply dig up some next excuse to use.

In reality, in any combat, "pure skill" is but one of many factors which influence the outcome, and such is the reason why experienced players usually define "skill" as a very large concept that encompasses one's ability to use/adapt a variety of elements and conditions around them -- and not just how and when you press a button.

Among those wide range of things that make up "skill" for experienced PvP players, preparation and training before the fight itself is one of them. Top players in PvP make sure that not only are they sharp in personal combat technique, but also make preparations to increase their chance of survival + wins in any way they can. They constantly, and so very dilligently make efforts to be equipped with the best of gear/items in any way they can.

Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a "player undergeared, but excellent in skill, and would win many games if it were not for gear difference" -- the only exception being an already experienced player making a new character. This is basically "the Natural" complex... the romantic dream of an ungroomed, untrained, natural player with so much potential that in some sports/game that suddenly appears out of nowhere and trumps professional players.

These are all, excuses. Made-up fantasies to cover one's own insecurity.
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Asukaa's Avatar


Asukaa
08.08.2012 , 09:57 AM | #8
You guys are pretty much on point (not the whiners).

Edit: I've seen teams running around naked, just destroying people... So please tell me how those WH trinkets they kept on gave them such a large gear gap while others had full BM/WH?

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
08.08.2012 , 10:18 AM | #9
so many factors, skill and gear are two of the most important. So many others, just to list a few, please add more

-your skill
-opponent skill
-your gear
-opponent gear
-time available/willing to play
-opponent's time available/willing to play
-number of toons you actively play (or have played)
-number of toons your opponent actively plays (or have played)
-your understanding of class abilities
-your opponent's understanding of class abilities
-in game time spent in pvp
-opponent's in game time spent in pvp
-your team make up
-opposing team make up
-access to mods / buffs /consumables
-opponent's access to mods / buffs / consumables
-mouse / keyboard type
-opponent's mouse / keyboard type
-hungover or not
-opponent hungover or not
-high or not
-opponent high or not
-listening to baseball/podcasts or not
-opponent listening to baseball/podcasts or not
-using teamspeak/vent/etc or not
-opponent using teamspeak/vent/etc or not
-level of team competence
-opponent's level of team competence
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
+ =

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
08.08.2012 , 10:32 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
This romanticized "Skill vs. Skill" concept is nothing but a newbie fantasy. It is invented as one of many excuses for a bad player with a huge "size of ego - to - actual skill" ratio to comfort oneself by constantly blaming something else as the reason they are defeated so often in PvP games.
The most rational, truthful, and spot-on two sentences I've ever read posted on the PvP boards. This should be stickied. Hell...it should be on the log in screen, right above the patch notes.