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Jedi Are ***** < - spoilers for SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Jedi Are ***** < - spoilers for SWTOR

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
08.10.2012 , 10:08 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Ranadiel_Marius View Post
.....LMAO. I took like three maybe four dark side choices accross the class storylines on my 8 characters. None of those were on my BH. And in case you are curious all but one of those DS were related to....romantic relationships. The one that wasn't was a mistake caused by trying every dialogue option in an atempt to save a character.

Anyways, I see you missed the point I was making. Probably because I was going more for humor than making the point and it was probably in response to a minor point to begin with. I'll try to do this again with a lot less snark. Chapter 3 of the BH storyline is not about the revenge of the Jedi. Chapter 3 is about the BH's revenge on the Jedi. Even if you are playing it LS the focus of the storyline is on the BH's doing what needs to be done in order to get his revenge.

And I hardly think you can make a blanket statement that the Jedi were out for revenge. A single Jedi was arguably out for revenge. The others were hunting down what they believed to be a dangerous threat to the Republic. I mean the BH does take down a battleship, that probably makes him more accomplished than most Lords of the Sith and probably a decent chunk of the Darths. The BH might not have done everythign that Jun said that he did, but his rap sheet is still fairly long without those additions.
To me, it was about clearing your name as a Bounty Hunter more than revenge. The Jedi (Jun Seros in particular) was still out for revenge for what happened to Kellian Jarro. He sends the SIS, a Jedi strike team, and even the Geno'Haradan after you. And even in his dying breath, he refuses to admit framing you is a mistake. He says his only mistake was getting all those people killed.... which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't framed you in the first place. Gotta love his logic.

That's the thing about war. Soldiers in war do what they're told. Mercs working for the Empire are the same way. They just get paid a bit more. Nowhere did my BH commit "war crimes" in order to achieve my goals. The sound beating I gave Lord Malfus on Alderaan was completely justified.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.10.2012 , 10:27 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
To me, it was about clearing your name as a Bounty Hunter more than revenge. The Jedi (Jun Seros in particular) was still out for revenge for what happened to Kellian Jarro. He sends the SIS, a Jedi strike team, and even the Geno'Haradan after you. And even in his dying breath, he refuses to admit framing you is a mistake. He says his only mistake was getting all those people killed.... which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't framed you in the first place. Gotta love his logic.

That's the thing about war. Soldiers in war do what they're told. Mercs working for the Empire are the same way. They just get paid a bit more. Nowhere did my BH commit "war crimes" in order to achieve my goals. The sound beating I gave Lord Malfus on Alderaan was completely justified.
I'm pretty sure taking hostages is a war crime. Of course, it was Tormen's idea, but saying "I only followed orders" doesn't count, especially for you.

I don't know much about the story, but even in imperial space the bounty hunter has commited crimes. Not war crimes, but crimes. For example many of the things you do on Balmorra.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
08.10.2012 , 01:10 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
I'm pretty sure taking hostages is a war crime. Of course, it was Tormen's idea, but saying "I only followed orders" doesn't count, especially for you.

I don't know much about the story, but even in imperial space the bounty hunter has commited crimes. Not war crimes, but crimes. For example many of the things you do on Balmorra.
Which is why I skipped over the planetary story arcs sometimes when they did include what would amount to war crimes, and proceeded with class story only. Darth Tormen is pretty much blackmailing the BH, btw. Work for him, or you will never get your "revenge" or get your name cleared. He even chokes out you and Mako or whichever companion you bring along if you tell him you aren't interested or mouth off in any way. I enjoyed killing him even more than Jun Seros, tbh.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.10.2012 , 01:33 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Which is why I skipped over the planetary story arcs sometimes when they did include what would amount to war crimes, and proceeded with class story only. Darth Tormen is pretty much blackmailing the BH, btw. Work for him, or you will never get your "revenge" or get your name cleared. He even chokes out you and Mako or whichever companion you bring along if you tell him you aren't interested or mouth off in any way. I enjoyed killing him even more than Jun Seros, tbh.
Yeah, but I mean your story on Balmorra. Not war crimes, but definitly crimes.

And, well you associate with a war criminal to get your revenge... not a wise move, but the game leaves you no choice.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
08.10.2012 , 04:42 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
Yeah, but I mean your story on Balmorra. Not war crimes, but definitly crimes.

And, well you associate with a war criminal to get your revenge... not a wise move, but the game leaves you no choice.
Taking down enemy combatants isn't a war crime. Capturing enemy commanders isn't a war crime. Pwning a Jedi on the opposing side isn't a war crime. The only times I had to "take hostages", I let them go immediately. Hell, they weren't even hostages. Just civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time. The guy asked me to let them leave, so I said "Ok, I have no problem with that."

Oh, and I even rescued some Republic miners on Quesh that had been left to die by the Republic. You get plenty of choices to do the right thing in the game.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.10.2012 , 05:46 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Taking down enemy combatants isn't a war crime. Capturing enemy commanders isn't a war crime. Pwning a Jedi on the opposing side isn't a war crime. The only times I had to "take hostages", I let them go immediately. Hell, they weren't even hostages. Just civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time. The guy asked me to let them leave, so I said "Ok, I have no problem with that."

Oh, and I even rescued some Republic miners on Quesh that had been left to die by the Republic. You get plenty of choices to do the right thing in the game.
The hostage situation is the one with the Selonians on Corellia. I haven't played Bounty Hunter, but in the videos I watched LS and DS bounty hunters took their "mothers and sisters" hostage to capture their leader. I'd consider this a war crime.

On Balmorra, you sabotage the work of an imperial officer for another imperial officer and you kill an imperial admiral. That makes you a criminal by imperial standards. I'll look up Nar Shadda soon, I guess you are also a criminal there.

Edit: Blowing up a research facility and blackmailing a lot of people. Well, yeah, these are standard bounty hinter crimes, but still crimes.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

lironBD's Avatar


lironBD
08.12.2012 , 08:35 AM | #17
of course bounty hunter is criminal. but who gave those sorry a*s jedi the right to be the fricking police?

As I've stated my BH at least gave them the chance for fair 1 VS 1 fight but those di*ks kept hiding and running away etc.

On my JK story jedi were:
1. Psycho warmongers.
2. masochists.
3. went dark side and became insane.. even my dark 5 Darth council member is not that insane....
Europe -> The Red Ecplipse
Oracans-> Sith Pureblood Inquisitor Sorcerer

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
08.12.2012 , 01:34 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
The hostage situation is the one with the Selonians on Corellia. I haven't played Bounty Hunter, but in the videos I watched LS and DS bounty hunters took their "mothers and sisters" hostage to capture their leader. I'd consider this a war crime.

On Balmorra, you sabotage the work of an imperial officer for another imperial officer and you kill an imperial admiral. That makes you a criminal by imperial standards. I'll look up Nar Shadda soon, I guess you are also a criminal there.

Edit: Blowing up a research facility and blackmailing a lot of people. Well, yeah, these are standard bounty hinter crimes, but still crimes.
Actually, no. It's only a crime by Imperial standards if you get caught. The Bounty on the Admiral is legit, though. I really suggest playing though it your way before you make snap judgments based on youtube videos, though. You will find quite a few extenuating circumstances that the videos don't show.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

lironBD's Avatar


lironBD
08.12.2012 , 06:31 PM | #19
actually on balmorra I didn't kill the admiral I killed my competitor which killed the admiral so I was hero and winner :P
Europe -> The Red Ecplipse
Oracans-> Sith Pureblood Inquisitor Sorcerer

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
08.13.2012 , 08:51 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by lironBD View Post
of course bounty hunter is criminal. but who gave those sorry a*s jedi the right to be the fricking police?

As I've stated my BH at least gave them the chance for fair 1 VS 1 fight but those di*ks kept hiding and running away etc.
If you broke Republic law (I'm not sure about that), the Jedi have every right come for you. The Republic gave them (among other rights) the right to act as a police force.

And the police don't have to fight one on one. They could have come with 6 Jedi to arrest you. If you resist, they could have used force. But the way they do it in the BH story violates the law itself (or at least the rules), that's why the supreme chancallor changes his mind.

(But he also offers you immunity for your real crimes, so you must have broken Republic law at one point.)

Quote:
On my JK story jedi were:
1. Psycho warmongers.
2. masochists.
3. went dark side and became insane.. even my dark 5 Darth council member is not that insane....
1. What?
2. What?
3. What?


1. Who is a psycho warmonger? Satele is a leader in a war, does that make her a warmonger? Master Orgus want's to "get things done", but he didn't start any war. He always answered to violent actions of others. The only Jedi you could see as warmonger is Master Jaric Kaedan.

2. Who is a masochists and why?

3. Sorry, being mind controlled by the obviously insane Emperor would make everyone insane*. So the only one who counts is Bengal Morr.

*Tol Braga broke free and was still insane afterwards. Still, I really doubt that this shows a disposition for the dark side. He explains why he went insane: Because the Emperor "showed" him, that everything he did as a Jedi was pointless. (Servant 2 also goes insane after "being exposed to the Emperor", so I think the reason for this is the Emperor.)


So, please write in which category all the important Jedi from the storyline fit and why. Because I can't see most of them fitting in one of these categories.


Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Actually, no. It's only a crime by Imperial standards if you get caught. The Bounty on the Admiral is legit, though. I really suggest playing though it your way before you make snap judgments based on youtube videos, though. You will find quite a few extenuating circumstances that the videos don't show.
So, taking the Selonians hostage is still a war crime. (The Empire doesn't care for war crimes, of course.)

And "it's only a crime if you get caught" can be said for every state, even in the real world. You don't really want to tell me that if the Empire discovered you did these things a few month afterwards they wouldn't try to get you.

As far as I have seen the Empire, it's more like: It's only a crime if you don't have someone powerful who protects you.

I know it's always better to play through the story, but Bounty Hunter is on the bottom of my list. I don't like underworld stuff, and smuggler sounds more like fun. Since I'm a very slow leveller, I'll play Bounty Hunter probably in around a year. So what are the extenuating circumstances?

And the Supreme Chancallow also mentions "real crimes", so you must have broken Republic law at some point. If not, it's bad writing.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall