So, this has been bugging me for a while now. First a little back-story, I played WoW for a long time off-and-on on a pve server. However, my guild was pvp/pve (emphasis on pvp, raiding came second). While world pvp was never something encouraged, we never got penalized for doing it. Did we raid Stormwind on the weekends? Yes (we were Horde). Did we kite world bosses into major cities just for lol'z? Yes. Would we take over enemy towns? You better believe it. Would we flag ourselves and camp raid entrances on peak nights. Yes, so many times yes.

Even though we were absolutely the villains of the Alliance, Blizzard never suspended our accounts (and I know there were many complaints). So why does Bioware kowtow to the first person who can't turn in their precious quests because some world pvp took over their quest hub? So far, there are two places to pvp in the world (if you so choose), and both are ghost towns. Ilum is used solely for dailies (which is so worth the long load time); Outlaw's Den is consistently glossed over to get 1 quest done.

To me, this is detrimental to community. Factional rivalries make the game fun. They give you a palpable enemy to grind an axe about and make you want to get better so you can wipe the floor with your rival du jour. Having a palpable enemy faction creates stronger community among your own faction too; getting a raid together to go take back Crossroads was amazing fun back in the day.

Instead... We're segregated from each other. There is no opportunity to even interact with the other faction outside of Warzones. Our Fleets are completely inaccessible to the other side. A Pub out in the wild is rare beyond belief. Even if I flag myself (even on lowbie alts), no one will engage me. No one will accept duel requests (my legacy name can't be that notorious, right?). Every town is guarded by Lv. 50 Champions (making even taking over a small town require a raid, essentially).

I'm not saying we need any egregious options for engaging each other. I just think we need to have at least some measure of access to each other. I would love to crawl around the Pub Fleet on my operative, killing vendors and taunting players to come find me. Please, Bioware, don't let a few crybabies have their way. I know some people will say, "Well, go play on a PVP server then." I would, but there's really no difference between a pve and pvp server when your entire end-game is played on the fleet. Either give us a reason to go out into the world (world bosses don't count because there are etiquette rules for those) or let us get into each others fleets somehow. I know the Republic is out there and just want to be able to touch it.

It would be awesome to be able to do some of these things but you totally should have rolled on a PvP server. I'm going to assume most people roll on a PvE server just avoid the things you want to do. So why force a way of playing that they have no interest in on them?

For PvP servers this would be great. Especially if each faction had a raid on the opposite home planet. Like Raiding the Jedi/Sith ruins on Coruscant/Drumond Koss. Could be interesting.

It would be awesome to be able to do some of these things but you totally should have rolled on a PvP server. I'm going to assume most people roll on a PvE server just avoid the things you want to do. So why force a way of playing that they have no interest in on them?

 

For PvP servers this would be great. Especially if each faction had a raid on the opposite home planet. Like Raiding the Jedi/Sith ruins on Coruscant/Drumond Koss. Could be interesting.

Yes I remember these debates long before the game was released. I get the feeling BioWare was afraid of "what could happen" and " "what might scare away casual gamers".

Many of us (speaking to PvPers) loved the idea of laying siege to opposing towns, planets, capitals, etc..etc.. Simular to what many of us did in WoW. I played Alliance and we took over several outposts (corssroads, terrin mill, etc..etc..) and waiting for the Horde to fly in. If South shore was taken over by the Horde we either fought them to take it back or avoid the area until they left. Players didn't quit the game nor cry " I'll quit if you allow this Blizzard!".

Most fun I had was then the Horde raided Iron Forge, pillaged, chased lowbies and went after the King. There were so many spells being cast my graphic card couldn't keep up.

But back to SWTOR. I think BIOWARE steered clear of anything that (they felt) could upset the casual player base. But then again.. they said this was KOTOR 3 with story..story...story...story.. and the option to group if we wanted. So perhaps it is US who expected more then what it is.

Factional rivalries make the game fun. They give you a palpable enemy to grind an axe about and make you want to get better so you can wipe the floor with your rival du jour. Having a palpable enemy faction creates stronger community among your own faction too; getting a raid together to go take back Crossroads was amazing fun back in the day.

Part of the problem is that most players I know play both factions, and play them daily. At least 80% of the people in my guild will do their PVP dailies on their Republic toon and then switch over to their Imperial toon to do the same. The same goes for many of the best PVPers I know as well. Before we lost some guildies we did rated on our Republic toons on one server and the same on our Imperial toons on another server.

I agree with your post though. We need more open world PVP but Ilum has been back to the drawing board for how long now?

Part of the problem is that most players I know play both factions, and play them daily. At least 80% of the people in my guild will do their PVP dailies on their Republic toon and then switch over to their Imperial toon to do the same. The same goes for many of the best PVPers I know as well. Before we lost some guildies we did rated on our Republic toons on one server and the same on our Imperial toons on another server.

 

I agree with your post though. We need more open world PVP but Ilum has been back to the drawing board for how long now?

Yeah but allowing players to have both factions on the same server killed any "loyalty" (for the most part) to one faction. But again... since Bioware had no intention of allowing us to take over towns\cities\planets... i suppose it doesn't matter.

@ KaiLan: True, I hadn't thought of it that way. I think really though, I'm just trying to find new things to do since Explosive Content HM is old by now and there's no new content on the horizon (especially since BW is proving they'll just push patches through without proper testing first). Recently, Pubs took a few Tattooine questing hubs from the Empire and we absolutely refused to go take them back due to fear of the ban-hammer. It's not that we're expecting too much, it's that BW has sown an atmosphere of fear about going out and making some for real enemies.

@ Capt_Beers: Explain to me the real difference between a pvp and pve server. Sure, you level up out in the world, but once you're at end-game, there's absolutely no reason to leave the Fleet. Need to raid? Fleet. Need to pvp? Fleet. Need to run a FP? Fleet (or your base at Ilum). There's no reason to go farm mats; there's no rare drops really worth farming (unless you're dedicated to seeing some specific orange-quality gear). So, I ask you again, what's the real difference between a pvp server and a pve server other than having that frankly ignorable rep of saying, "I play on a pvp server."?

It's a sad state of affairs when a game completely bows to the casuals. Sure, WoW's become more accessible over the years (it's pretty much had to to survive), but it still has truly difficult content (Heroic FL's Ragnaros anyone?) and, at least to me, has a good balance of listening to the community and ignoring the crybabies. Maybe BW will grow some teeth and learn not to bend over backwards in the face off a few people afraid of getting ganked.

NOTE: I don't use casual to describe someone who can't/ doesn't play often. Casuals represent a mindset of laziness, meticulous non-dedication to improving skill, and willingness to complain at the first sight of adversity. Truly skilled players rise to the occasion; scrubs get to tank the floor beneath us.

Exactly. We've got these massive planets that, while epic in scale, feel rather barren. Even on the planets both factions share, you'll be hard up to find an opposing-factioned player.

I think this is mostly due to the office-building-esque layout of the game. You've got your conference room level (the fleet) and an elevator (your ship) to take you to whatever bits of business you're handling at the time (the planets). It makes for a very clunky total picture of the game world because there are some levels (planets) that are just completely closed off to you. I think that's part of the overall success of WoW. It's just one massive map that both sides are forced to coexist on. Not, Empire gets Conference Room A and Republic gets Conference Room B.