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Carnage Marauders/Combat Sentinels Roots

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Carnage Marauders/Combat Sentinels Roots

vimm's Avatar


vimm
08.08.2012 , 02:41 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by dronepilot View Post
"Force Speed" lol at that one.. means NOTHING against enemies who have a 30 meter target range, Force speed isn't anything, trust me.
I don't trust you.
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

Cosch's Avatar


Cosch
08.08.2012 , 02:43 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Brool View Post
And by gamebreaking survivability do you mean, you are not smart enough to save 1 single stun for when you see those single digit numbers?

I mean really game breaking.. I laugh everytime I see that. It's so easy to counter that its laughable everytime I see someone complain about it.
A near permanent 20% shield is gamebreaking.

Cosch's Avatar


Cosch
08.08.2012 , 02:45 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Daikeru View Post
8 seconds? .... Shadow's or Scoundrels' spammable 8s mez? Consular's Lift or Smuggler's Flashbang? Sure we can do it when they have full resolve, but don't act like we're the only class that can keep someone still for 8s at a time. Better yet, in a mez they don't/can't fight back, but what about when we're rooting you?
and sents/maras have an aoe 6 second mez with like a 10 meter range. Not sure where you were headed with that one.

Paulman's Avatar


Paulman
08.08.2012 , 02:48 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
Let's talk about:

Sniper - 2 knockback + 2 root + 4sec stun + flashbang + 3 types of defense + highest damage.
Sorcerer - knockback + 4sec stun + whirlwind + roots + slows and slows.
Mercenary - 2 knockback + concussion missile + 4sec stun + slow.
Assassin tank - 2 stun + root + CC immunity + knockback + force speed.
Powertech - 1 4sec stun + 4sec aoe stun + slow + root

Are you talking about marauder yet?
Marauders have 1 (ONE) CC, wich breaks on damage and 2 roots ONLY in carnage tree, by Deadly Saber and Ravage.
Have no knockbacks, no stuns, immunity.
I'm fine with them having roots. I am not fine with the fact they can't be cleansed by anyone. All the other roots I believe can be.

Naplm's Avatar


Naplm
08.08.2012 , 04:38 AM | #15
Yes, it is really easy to piss opposite team with this spec. But tbh, it requires more skill and faster response than the two other trees when it comes to survivability. Go with this spec, master it and your team will love you like they love a good healer.

Fdzzaigl's Avatar


Fdzzaigl
08.08.2012 , 05:45 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
Are you talking about marauder yet?
Marauders have 1 (ONE) CC, wich breaks on damage and 2 roots ONLY in carnage tree, by Deadly Saber and Ravage.
Have no knockbacks, no stuns, immunity.
And a 50% base 12s slow which is pretty much spam- able (+ one in the annihilation tree as well) and a combat cloak that gives 50% damage reduction and a 20% shield against ALL damage (unlike armor) 1/2 of the time, and of course the infamous 99% damage reduction for 50% health.

Ps.: Grapple only roots for tank powertechs and very few players go for that.

Nolenthar's Avatar


Nolenthar
08.08.2012 , 06:03 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Fdzzaigl View Post
And a 50% base 12s slow which is pretty much spam- able (+ one in the annihilation tree as well) and a combat cloak that gives 50% damage reduction and a 20% shield against ALL damage (unlike armor) 1/2 of the time, and of course the infamous 99% damage reduction for 50% health.
Despite ignorance being one of the treasure being the better shared among people, I'm always stunned by the ignorance of some of you.
CofP/Rebuke reduces all damage income by 20% for 6 seconds, and refreshes each time you're attacked for a total of 30 seconds. In a PvE environnment, you can quite easily be able to keep it up for 30 seconds (or half of the time) but in a PvP environnment, come on. Surviving 30 seconds while being attacked is nowhere possible unless you have a pocket healer, and even then 20% mitigation for 30 seconds over 1 minute is like 10% more for a full minute over a minute, which would just mean our mitigation is in par with heavy armor WHEN rebuke can go full time (which requires quite some luck).

I'm quite surprised this is the day for the root. I'm looking forward to the "Why Mara can use 2 lightsabers ? and I can't ?" nerf thread.

I don't know if I should cry or laugh at this community tbh. I will choose the latter.
Kao'celaar Ildorii, Juyo Master, Mystical Awakening

Fdzzaigl's Avatar


Fdzzaigl
08.08.2012 , 06:27 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Nolenthar View Post
Despite ignorance being one of the treasure being the better shared among people, I'm always stunned by the ignorance of some of you.
CofP/Rebuke reduces all damage income by 20% for 6 seconds, and refreshes each time you're attacked for a total of 30 seconds. In a PvE environnment, you can quite easily be able to keep it up for 30 seconds (or half of the time) but in a PvP environnment, come on. Surviving 30 seconds while being attacked is nowhere possible unless you have a pocket healer, and even then 20% mitigation for 30 seconds over 1 minute is like 10% more for a full minute over a minute, which would just mean our mitigation is in par with heavy armor WHEN rebuke can go full time (which requires quite some luck).

I'm quite surprised this is the day for the root. I'm looking forward to the "Why Mara can use 2 lightsabers ? and I can't ?" nerf thread.

I don't know if I should cry or laugh at this community tbh. I will choose the latter.

I was replying to the quoted poster who made it seem like marauders are somehow on the short end of the stick in this discussion.

I have a marauder, there is little to be "ignorant" about. OK, 1/2 of the time might be stretching it, but it won't be far from it at all. There are very few occasions indeed where my cloak of pain is not available, usually only during long battles at the start of a game or if you get roflstomped.

Surviving 30 seconds not possible without a healer? You have 9 whole seconds of being either invincible or invisible alone, if my gunslinger and vanguard can survive for 30 seconds, you really need to wonder about what you're doing if that doesn't work out with a Marauder.

I think marauder / sent players are really oblivious to the actual power of rebuke / cloak of pain sometimes, 20% against ALL damage on a one minute timer, potentially for 30 seconds, is HUGE.
It puts you above tanks in pure damage reduction, as armor can be penetrated or ignored by a large number of effects.

Oh and BTW, I forgot to list obfuscate / saberward in that post. So yeah.

Not claiming that marauders are OP or whatever, not going on the "nerf this nerf that" bandwagon. But they have boatloads of defence and tools to deal with being rooted / slowed / focused / whatever themselves, much more than other classes.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
08.08.2012 , 06:44 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
Let's talk about:

Sniper - 2 knockback + 2 root + 4sec stun + flashbang + 3 types of defense + highest damage.
Sorcerer - knockback + 4sec stun + whirlwind + roots + slows and slows.
Mercenary - 2 knockback + concussion missile + 4sec stun + slow.
Assassin tank - 2 stun + root + CC immunity + knockback + force speed.
Powertech - 1 4sec stun + 4sec aoe stun + slow + root

Are you talking about marauder yet?
Marauders have 1 (ONE) CC, wich breaks on damage and 2 roots ONLY in carnage tree, by Deadly Saber and Ravage.
Have no knockbacks, no stuns, immunity.
You're wrong, here's something that actually is accurate rather than something you just made up because you're another lol-rauder who doesn't know how to use your own class's abilities, much less knowing other classes- and is terrified you'll be nerfed if BW were to ever not have the same understanding of the classes you do.

Sorc- KB on delay 20 sec CD, 4 sec stun 1 min CD, root 2 seconds with 9 sec CD (in 90 seconds you'll get off 22 seconds of roots if you start at 0 seconds) OR adding a 2 sec root with potential 5 sec without being damage to KB, potential mez you can't control on shield (which can fill resolve at bad times), 2 second cast single target mez , 12 sec CD interrupt, potential slow to 50% that roots caster, 6 sec instant slow on 12 sec CD. Force speed 30 sec CD, 2 seconds of greatly increased speed and snare but not root immunity.

Marauder- instant slow 50% 12 seconds no CD and annihilation adds a slow to their main dot, in carnage 3 roots deadly throw 12 sec CD 3 second root, force leap gap closer and 2 sec root or 3 sec root in carnage 12 sec anni CD 15 sec carnage CD, ravage in carnage 27 sec CD and 3 sec root. (for carnage, in 90 seconds you'll have 4 carnages, 7 leaps, 8 deadly throws which is 57 seconds worth of roots- two and a half times more roots than sorcs have despite sorcs being a so called CC class). Obfuscate 60 sec CD 6 sec 90% blind. Predation 10 second 50 (80 in carnage)% movement speed buff to entire team (you can builds stacks for it, or use the instant full fury in about the time for force speed's CD- overall the speed from non talented predation ends up being about two and a half more overall speed gained than force speed). 8 or 6 in anni sec CD interrupt (anni have an interrupt twice as often as sorc- but on top of that, sorcs can interrupt ONE mara ability and only if not cast on them, while about half of sorc abilities can be interrupted by a mara- making it far more useful for a mara over a sorc). Force camo, drops targetting and 30% speed buff, damage reduction and 4 second stealth to top it off at an insane 45 sec CD. Force choke- 3 seconds, roots self stun on one min CD (the stun is the one area a sorc has over the mara, but considering a mara gets that one thing that roots self, while half of sorc abilities root the sorc to get off- I'd be more than happy to have nothing but instants as a sorc and a channeled stun if you mara would like the instant stun and having all your abilities be interruptable and root you). AoE mez, 60 sec CD, instant (so, while on the same CD as a sorc mez the mara mez also has no cast time AND effects multiple targets- pretty obvious which is better, and I'd gladly trade whirlwind for intimidating roar any day). Carnage gets a permanent 15% run speed boost.

That doesn't even touch on defensives, because you'd be comparing the multiple sorc ones to the none that mara have.

Needless to say- doesn't really look like a mara only has one CC and two roots. The only thing you got right is a mara has no KB- but why would a mara need a KB? That'd be like complaining a sorc has no force leap- I don't think that's an ability high on the 'useful for this class' list.

Sorry about the wall of text- but that's really just how rediculously overpowered the mobility/CC/gap maker+closer abilities of a mara are compared to a sorc- which is ironic because that's the only thing a mara will ever say a sorc has over a mara. Another marauder theory easily debunked.

Nolenthar's Avatar


Nolenthar
08.08.2012 , 07:25 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Fdzzaigl View Post

Surviving 30 seconds not possible without a healer?
While being focused, 30 seconds ?
WH-aug sent is around 20K, you're assuming taking less than 700 DPS for 30 seconds while being attacked.
That's barely possible with 1 player hitting on you, a tank/jug maybe can do that ? any dps will be far above 1000 DPS, which at best would mean 20 seconds.

So no, I see where we come from, but still. Rebuke CAN be up 30 seconds max, it will never really be in any fight where it would make a difference (if you're focused by 2 or more dps, having rebuke on the full duration on the fight won't save you, Force Camo will cancel it (unless you're timed perfectly)), etc.

Yes, Sentinel/Mara have a lot of defensive cooldowns, but many things in this game are "defensive cooldowns" without being a straight up immunity/mitigation. A CC for instance is a very good defensive cooldown as well.
When a sorcerer KB me the moment I leap on him, and I end up rooted for 5 seconds while being away from him, that's a defensive cooldown as well.

Admittedly, Sentinel/Mara have defensive cooldowns even a monkey would learn to make a good use of it, but that doesn't mean they have more defense than other class.

I know Ranges love Force Leap, and definitely most of the QQ about Jug/Mara comes from that (haven't you seen the lolmelee in this thread ? enlights the mentality of the poster), but seriously, if you're ranged and complain about melee, please try and we talk later, you'll quickly notice that 15s leap is nowhere close to spammable 30/35 meters attack
Kao'celaar Ildorii, Juyo Master, Mystical Awakening