Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Tanking Firebrand and Stormcaller, A question.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Tanking Firebrand and Stormcaller, A question.

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
08.06.2012 , 05:40 AM | #1
Just curious as to what you guys do to deal with the Incinerate Armor debuff (and possibly DD).

Currently having cleared all (HM specifically) content 4 weeks in a row (Down to clearing it all in one night on 8-man, one-shotting everything server lag permitting), the way my group does Firebrand and Stormcaller is situate the Guardian on SC and after Double Destruction he will Taunt Firebrand, but not leap or move to Firebrand, and I (the Shadow tank) will just the same sit there on Firebrand, dps'ing my little heart out until I see the Incinerate Armor cast bar come up in which case I will Taunt Firebrand back. I usually don't have the SC tank Taunt Firebrand on the first Double Destruction (popping Deflection to pretty much nullify the Debuff) to help him build up more aggro seeing as how he has to deal with a Guarded Sentinel's and Vig Guardian's DPS at the start.

I have personally never done the physical tank swap, but from my understanding of it, it seems to have a lot of places where it can **** up, especially if you're tanking with a Shadow/ Assassin.
1. You run the risk of someone else being targeted by the Lightning Rods/ Root Debuff (Primarily with shadows)
2. You run the risk of Swinging either boss around at an in opportune moment, potentially cleaving the other raid members.
3. You run the risk of miss-timing the Jump on to the other tank (If you're not Leaping/ Charging), and getting stuck on the ground, leading to higher chances of #1 and 2.

It just seems wayyy more complicated. But like I said, I'm curious as to how others deal with the fight.
APOSTATES
Website | Recruitment | About Us
Jokerseven - Shadow | Ce'lia - Sentinel
Sentinel PvE Basics/ Marauder PvE Basics

stephenjohnp's Avatar


stephenjohnp
08.06.2012 , 09:11 PM | #2
I've done both. Taunting after DD to catch Incinerate is much smoother than Tank swapping especially if you're a Shadow Tank, but I will say, if both Tanks are capable of leaping, then the difference is incredibly minute and down to preference.

BlastingGravy's Avatar


BlastingGravy
08.07.2012 , 09:50 AM | #3
My guild always switches, regardless of the tanks we have. You may not have a leap, but force speed is just as fast. Granted, it is a tiny bit harder to jump on the tank manually, but it's not exactly rocket science. Cleave is not much of an issue, since they don't cleave very soon after incinerate armor anyway. I prefer tank swapping because it improves threat generation on both tanks and the leaps give bonuses to both guardians and vanguards. As a shadow, you could also stealth, let a DPS take incinerate armor, and then taunt back, or use your cooldowns to just take it.

If your way works for your group though, by all means, keep using it.
Official My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Guild
Help spread love and tolerance across the galaxy.
Guild HQ | Guild Thread | Forum
Pinkiepi: Shield Specialist Vanguard

CitizenFry's Avatar


CitizenFry
08.07.2012 , 10:24 AM | #4
I like tank swapping on this fight just because it means you will be changing which tank will be eating mortar fire during Defensive/Offensive Systems and thus there should always be defensive cooldowns active for that phase.
Crafting on The Ebon Hawk. PST/mail: Blayze (rep) / K'ron (imp)
Armoring: Commando 26, Reflex 26; Barrel: Patron 26
Mod: Weighted 26+26B, Deflecting 26 Enhancement: Bulwark 26, Battle 26, Finesse 26
Ear: Black Hole Mender's MK-2 Relay

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
08.08.2012 , 09:15 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by BlastingGravy View Post
As a shadow, you could also stealth, let a DPS take incinerate armor, and then taunt back, or use your cooldowns to just take it.
You must not play a Shadow lol... the Combat Stealth thing is a 3 minute cooldown and reduces healing received by 99% for 10 seconds afterwards. A guildy of mine (also a shadow tank) tried to say that "Vanish" was a defensive Cooldown and we pretty much laughed him out of mumble.

That said I usually just Deflection through the first DD so that the other tank can build initial aggro. After that we pretty much have no issue and usually complete the whole fight in under one Inspiration CD on HM.
APOSTATES
Website | Recruitment | About Us
Jokerseven - Shadow | Ce'lia - Sentinel
Sentinel PvE Basics/ Marauder PvE Basics

alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
08.09.2012 , 07:06 PM | #6
Do what feels best for you. We have a DPS take Incinerate debuff (Jugg or PT, we have no Ssins) and then no switches just go like that.

What you do is essentially the same except instead of a dps doing the taunt, your SC tank is doing it. If positioned right, whih Im sure you are if youre consistently clearing it, then no-one else will take any damage from either of the tanks from AOE cleave etc. And it's a very good clean tactic. It's also something that doesn't rely on having a Jugg/PT dps, making it more flexible.

Myself, when we tried it, we did it with 1 tank who didnt know the fight well, and it was out first time trying the tactic (due to lacking a PT/Jugg dps) and it did work, but it got a bit hairy for us. We had to move a lot of stuff around from what we're used to, and it was tough.

But honestly, theres pretty much3-4 different ways of doing this fight, and you just do what feels most natural for your group. Its part of the reason i love the fight, it's very finely tuned, and very flexible in terms of different strategies.
Kazar - Powertech, [Tomb of Freedom Nadd EU]

BlastingGravy's Avatar


BlastingGravy
08.14.2012 , 09:01 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
You must not play a Shadow lol... the Combat Stealth thing is a 3 minute cooldown and reduces healing received by 99% for 10 seconds afterwards. A guildy of mine (also a shadow tank) tried to say that "Vanish" was a defensive Cooldown and we pretty much laughed him out of mumble.
I'm well aware that it's on a 3 minute cooldown, which is why I specifically said "or use your cooldowns to just take it." Please read my posts in their entirety before assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Like I already said, I've never even used that strategy, because it's needlessly complex and wastes cooldowns that could be saved for emergencies. It's just a strategy that other shadows have said works for them.
Official My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Guild
Help spread love and tolerance across the galaxy.
Guild HQ | Guild Thread | Forum
Pinkiepi: Shield Specialist Vanguard

Aerilas's Avatar


Aerilas
08.18.2012 , 07:04 AM | #8
Our guild uses another tactic I haven't seen mentioned in here.

We put whatever tank we have 2nd on the Stormcaller, be this a guardian, vanguard or shadow (shadow works nice with force speed).

But what is certainly nessecary is that we put a Shadow tank on Firebrand.
When the 2nd tank calls DD on stormcaller the shadow tank on firebrand gets ready.
You know after the Incinerate Armor castbar it takes 3-5seconds for its first huge hit, and 8-10seconds for its 2nd.
The shadow tank counts after the cast and pops Resilience in time to suck up the first Incinerate Armor completely.
This way the healer can get him to full health for the 2nd Incinerate armor, after which the healer will have to make a short burst heal to top up the tank again.
If the healer could be in trouble the shadow could still pop Reflection for a minor damage reduction.

This works for us time and again. It generates stress on the healer but a good one can certainly manage it.
Another tactic is quite the same, but soaking the 2nd IA instead of the 1st.

As resilience is only on a 45sec cooldown it's available for -every- IA since you shouldnt have more than 1 per phase or you won't make the enrage timer anyway

Apollone's Avatar


Apollone
08.31.2012 , 05:42 PM | #9
I use the same tactic as OP does. However, yesterday was the first time I lost threat to dps which led to a wipe. Being a Stormcaller tank I have to move toward the dps during the DD, then get back in range to Firebrand to taunt him and only then switch back to Stormcaller. I've done it without a problem for 3-4 weeks but as more people get Campaign gear I find it harder and harder to keep the threat up and move while the dps just stands there and unloads on the boss. Anyone got any tips? The only solution I could come up with is aoe taunting during DD.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
08.31.2012 , 05:58 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Apollone View Post
Anyone got any tips? The only solution I could come up with is aoe taunting during DD.
In my guild, we have the tank stand still (or move back a smidge) and have the DPs run in and eat double destruction instead of having the tank move. The DPS lose a marginal amount of DPS at best (not that it matters since our Stormcaller DPS tends to be mounds ahead of our Firebrand DPS so we have to tell them to slow down or swap over towards the end of the fight to avoid having Storm die when Firebrand is at 20% or so), but it lets the tank focus on not cleaving into the DPS afterwards and prepping for the coming swap.

If you're having aggro problems overall thanks to your DPS pushing out massive numbers, it's important to remember that you can use taunt while you have aggro on a target; it will multiply your existing threat by a given value (1.1 if you're within 1m of the target or 1.3 if you're outside of that 1m). Of course, you should only really have to do this within the first 10 seconds of a fight, but, even so, since tank swaps don't occur more than once every 45 secs or so, as long as you know a swap isn't immediately incoming, you can be relatively confident in "wasting" a taunt purely for the aggro generation. Of course, if you do mistime it, you can always burn your AoE taunt when you get to the other side since, I believe, the radius isn't large enough to catch both tanks unless you're roughly in the middle of the two.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.