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Carnage: 100x better than Annihilation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Carnage: 100x better than Annihilation

OwnzYou's Avatar


OwnzYou
09.03.2012 , 02:32 AM | #61
Ok, so first off, let's all be honest here (and will someone try to put some sort of a number on this), how much of an actual difference is there in Survivability between the 3 Specs? My first 50 PvP character was a Jedi Shadow, and when I hear people talk about "This spec has more survivability" I always feel a little P.T.S.D. about different Specs' so called "survivability". As with a Shadow Tank Spec obviously gives you tank-worthy survivability, Balance Spec gives you baby self heals for crit DoT ticks (they really add up), and then the Stealth Spec has possibly the WORST survivability in the entire game (Light Armor, no self heals, no bubble, etc)

I've only gotten my Marauder up to 37 now, and went Annihilation from 11-35, then tried Carnage for 1 level, and Rage for 1 level. Currently back to Annihilation because, unlike the other Specs (at this point in time) I don't have to worry about any procs. I just do my thing, and everything goes as regular, as opposed to having to get 4 Force Choke ticks before a Smash, or checking if my Force Scream procs are all up.

From what I've noticed is the baby heals from Annihilation add up, but so far that's all they do - is add up and give me a Healing Total, but doesn't really have much actual impact on my matches, except for in 1v1 situations.

The biggest thing I missed when I checked out the other Specs was I was SO used to having no Minimum Distance on Force Charge that I found myself trying to Force Charge people while I'm right in their face.

My god though, nothing beats watching a single Smash hit 3-5 people all for 2.5k+

Also, 2 more personal things I had gotten used to (and miss) from Carnage Spec was the abundance of Immobilize. Force Charge, Deadly Throw and Ravage all Immobilize people, which is amazing in Huttball! Also, the other thing I miss about the Carnage was being a Predation FACTORY. I never used Berserk in Carnage Spec, as it never really seemed to suit my situation/playstyle, so I would have Predation going round the clock. There was 1 match on Novare Coast where I was allowed to live long enough to fire off 3 Predations for my team!

Really excited to continue this character and get to level 40, where we start to get super beefcake.

Also, DEATH TO THE INFIDEL GUNSLINGERS!!! I cannot for the life of me take down a Gunslinger unless I catch them with their pants down. Even with Rage Spec, Obliterate has such a short range, it doesn't really make that much of a difference against them *sad face*

crimsonki's Avatar


crimsonki
09.04.2012 , 03:51 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkbladeZZ View Post
Admittedly, I haven't played carnage much, but I do think Anni is a little harder to dps as.

Things Carnage has to worry about while dpsing:
Gore CD
Force Scream CD
Pooling rage for Beserk - Massacre spam

Things Anni has to worry about:
Anni Stacks when starting rotation - you have a small window to go from 1 stack to 2. This also comes into play for bosses with breaks in damage - where you have no choice but to let stacks fall, messing up your rotation
Rage pooling for anni - 5 rage for your main dd attack is not trivial
Rupture CD
Deadly Saber CD
Clipping the Rupture dot when Pulverize procs
Using charge as a rage builder vs. needing to use it for mobility - Bosses like Gharj, Foreman come to mind

I didn't include battering assault or assault vs vicious/massacre because both specs deal with those, although I'd ague that assault vs. vicious is a more important decision for anni because of the rage requirement on anni.

These aren't huge differences, but I do think anni has much more to worry about to reach top dps. Of course, I have little experience with Carnage, so maybe I'm missing some tricks to the carnage rotation.
I have experience with all 3 mara spec's but I feel my playstyle is gear'd twords Annihilation. Both spec's when played optimally will wreck ****. AAs far as healer killing goes anni can do the job carn does but you just need a different time frame/situation vice-versa with carnage. From the perspective with someone who currently has 1.2k power stacked I feel that Anni is a risk-reward spec opposed to carn's constant flat numbers. Carn is squishy and vulnerable (VERY) vulnerable to KB's and CC's annihalation can deal with this better but as said so many times damage ramps up and also is dealt differently. However with 1.2k power my Annihilate crits for 4.2k-5k on squishy targets, ravage can be used as a filler after rupture dot for the first 2 ticks (that also apply bleeds/dots) and the constant assault spam to rev up for the rupture/Deadly saber/annihilate will add to your overall damage. Not to mention the self-sustaining heals. My bleeds have crit for a near 1.4k on an unfortunae sorc healer when bezerk is up. You cannot ignore 700-1300 dot ticks along with the self-hot's and the possible RAW physical damage dealt.

I like carnage as well but it's not my playstyle. Trust me I know what it feels like to one shot a sage with a gore-buffed ravage.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
09.04.2012 , 07:52 PM | #63
I always saw Carnage as a higher risk / reward spec, personally, as you aren't receiving heals unless you're queued w/ one. Then again, I've been Carnage pretty much 100% of the time (my fiance plays Annihilation very well, so we compare notes from time to time).

Anni is more mobile via shorter cd Force Charge (which can be used to get out of trouble) and shuts down casters almost brainlessly w/ multiple interrupts. Carnage hits harder up front (although I haven't caught a good player w/ a full Gore-buffed Ravage in a while), but has a lot less staying power than Anni under fire.

Anni does have a higher ramp-up time than Carnage, but it also has a lot more leeway in order to reach those milestones. The trade-off is that you need to watch your opponent's debuffs and your own rage bar more closely, which can be complicated if you're not used to doing so. Carnage, on the other hand, needs to watch its surroundings more closely because it's just so very easy to get caught w/ your pants down, and has the weakest defenses and lowest mobility of all 3 specs.

Also, from a pure total damage standpoint, Annihilation has the easiest time of all 3 specs getting to the top of the scoreboard if you just spam Rupture on everyone around you on cd, which also increases your healing at the same time, allowing you to deal damage for a longer period of time. Carnage has no similar mechanic to increase its staying power.

Just my 2 creds. /shrug
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Quangus's Avatar


Quangus
09.05.2012 , 07:51 PM | #64
Oright, after two days of trying out Combat/Carnage here are my thoughts so far:

First thing i noticed is: I can take down a player twice as fast as before if he lets me (compared to watchman/anni)

2nd thing is: i die twice as much as before, which on the other hand was kinda to be expected specially since i never played this spec at lvl 50 before

And so i currently try to fix point 2 as much as i can, trying to find ways how to keep me alive when we have no competent healer in my team or position and move myself strategically in such a way that ill become less affected by the stunfest which always happens in wzs. Everything, absolutely everything changed.

And yet it was much fun

Damagewise im still lacking a bit behind watchman/anni but that can surely be improved. But i doubt i could top Focus/Rage. One thing i really miss from the other specs is my old self-confidence in engaging fights with multiple opponents. If its one on one i can handle it just like the other specs. But if there is more than one at same time i might be able to burst down the first but dont have enough health/time to finish the rest. I know that when i was Watchman/Anni or Focus/Rage i could do 1vs2 or even 1vs3s many times and still emerge as the victor. But since im trying to improve point 2 i have to avoid these fights for now as much as possible...
Well yeah, my ego has to live with that lol

Oh yeah, and before anyone wants to point out i should get a premade with a good healer - yep that is totally doable but i still wanna test how far i can go on my own with this spec since i never really needed a premade for me to unleash my full potential in the other 2 specs.

-Yui-'s Avatar


-Yui-
09.06.2012 , 12:00 AM | #65
Focus/Rage spec was horrible for 1 v 2+ and never dealt consistent enough damage for me imo. It's like a one-trick pony, and against experienced players they simply knock you back when they see your stacks of singularity (or the imp equivalent is) get up. Sure, smashing an entire node in Novare Coast is fun, but the other three warzones, not so much. Even in Voidstar, unless a team has 4 healers/rdps stacked together, you'll do substantially less damage than Carnage or Watchman, and ditto in Civil War. That has been my experience playing Focus/Rage spec I guess.
meh

Quangus's Avatar


Quangus
09.06.2012 , 06:33 AM | #66
Yes, i see that many players share this opinion of urs and thats why i guess that players with this spec will always be the minority among sentinels/marauders. Other than that it is said that a guardian/juggernaut will excel much more in theory. But in reality i never saw that happen.

I played Focus/Rage since i chose sentinel as AC back in december, i leveled with it until 50 and sticked with it long time after until one day i got defeated by another sentinel for the first time who was watchman spec. It has its weaknesses, yeah sure, but so does Combat/Carnage and Watchman/Anni. Depending on the situatiion, one spec shines over the other. But one thing i can tell u, if one plays Focus/Rage like a one-trick pony then one will always get shut down no matter what. When i was this spec i always tried to play unpredictable as i can. U dont have to use sweep/smash every time as soon as u got the stacks up, u have a fair amount of time to choose when this happens and position urself to make the most out of it. And u certainly shouldnt rely soley on this ability for max damage and wait every time till its up. There are so many other tools one can use, for example spamming 6 free slahses which can hit 2 enemies at the same time can confuse the hell out of people, force exhaustion/crush in combination with rupture/cauterize gives u very nice dot damage, master strike when the opportunity is good etc. I know that this spec isnt for all, but for me its lots of fun and if i can perform well with it others can surely too.

Reek's Avatar


Reek
09.06.2012 , 06:47 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by -Yui- View Post
Focus/Rage spec was horrible for 1 v 2+ and never dealt consistent enough damage for me imo. It's like a one-trick pony, and against experienced players they simply knock you back when they see your stacks of singularity (or the imp equivalent is) get up. Sure, smashing an entire node in Novare Coast is fun, but the other three warzones, not so much. Even in Voidstar, unless a team has 4 healers/rdps stacked together, you'll do substantially less damage than Carnage or Watchman, and ditto in Civil War. That has been my experience playing Focus/Rage spec I guess.
Your experience is entirely different from my own.

I found Rage to do the most damage of all 3 specs. In Voidstar especially, which is just a frag fest, it's easy to get a 20k+ smash on a group of enemies. I also like that extra little charge that Rage gives you (I never remember the names of these skills). You can leap to snipers in cover with it, so it's really nice against those pesky jerks.

For me, Rage was a lot of fun, and something I'll likely do again some time, but I find Annihilation to be my bread n butter.

Personally, I would very highly recommend all Marauders put a good week or so into each of the 3 specs. Become good at all of them. Truth of the matter is we are lucky as hell to have a class with 3 viable specs. If you're good at all 3 then you don't need to worry about the inevitable questionable decisions BioWare makes with the class in the future.
Reyk / Reekx / Daemen / Iyapo
Vulkar Highway: 3rd Battlemaster, 1st Full War Hero Gear

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
09.06.2012 , 10:26 AM | #68
I've been queuing for rateds a lot more lately, and just playing with healers in general. I've been almost exclusively Carnage for this time, and I have learned one new thing:

As Carnage, Predation is amazing, and many times I use it over Berserk because it has so much more utility. It also takes skill to use it properly and not mess up your rotation/targetting etc. Basically, if you blow predation, you get defensive boosts and speed boosts, and honestly the speed boosts are what help the most. That 80% speed man, it makes it so incredibly hard for melee and even ranged dps to follow you as you zoom around them, overwhelming them with fast hits and faster movement.

Plus, running that fast with red streaks and lightsabers swinging around someone looks fuggin baller as hell.

I've had people whisper me after imp vs imp warzones saying stuff like "my god you are insane, I can't even begin to keep up with your playstyle!". It's an extremely frenetic, super charged play style that goes very well with fast paced heavy metal =). And, it counters people that are getting knocked out of range, helps your healers easily kite melee that are on them, etc. Try it, you'll thank me, and your team will thank you. The dps loss from not having 1 second GCD Massacres for a short time is worth what you gain in most cases.
Aluvian (now Aluvien) Sith Marauder <Infinite Darkness> Shadowlands
Aluviann Jedi Sentinel <Triumph> Shadowlands
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arkitip's Avatar


arkitip
09.06.2012 , 02:14 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Aluvi View Post
I've been queuing for rateds a lot more lately, and just playing with healers in general. I've been almost exclusively Carnage for this time, and I have learned one new thing:

As Carnage, Predation is amazing, and many times I use it over Berserk because it has so much more utility. It also takes skill to use it properly and not mess up your rotation/targetting etc. Basically, if you blow predation, you get defensive boosts and speed boosts, and honestly the speed boosts are what help the most. That 80% speed man, it makes it so incredibly hard for melee and even ranged dps to follow you as you zoom around them, overwhelming them with fast hits and faster movement.

Plus, running that fast with red streaks and lightsabers swinging around someone looks fuggin baller as hell.

I've had people whisper me after imp vs imp warzones saying stuff like "my god you are insane, I can't even begin to keep up with your playstyle!". It's an extremely frenetic, super charged play style that goes very well with fast paced heavy metal =). And, it counters people that are getting knocked out of range, helps your healers easily kite melee that are on them, etc. Try it, you'll thank me, and your team will thank you. The dps loss from not having 1 second GCD Massacres for a short time is worth what you gain in most cases.
It's totally dependent on the situation. Massacre spam with Berserk puts an insane amount of pressure on someone, especially with Gore active. It's especially nice for those pesky Operative healers.